1 2 Previous Next 17 Replies Latest reply on Jul 3, 2012 9:17 PM by Alex Keh - Product Manager-Oracle

    Fully managed ODP.NET

    Slawek Rosiek
      Hi,
      I have a few questions about coming managed odp.net provder:
      - Do you have plans to release it via nuget (including pre-release package)?
      - Will it support migrations and entity framework 5 features like enums and spatial types?
      - I have also one question about release timeframes. Microsoft EF Team want release its product more frequently. Will you be able to keep pace with them?

      Thanks,
      SÅ‚awek
        • 1. Re: Fully managed ODP.NET
          Invincible
          Hi,
          Currently there is ODP.NET package in Nuget so I think that it will be released in it.

          I want to ask if it will be Mono/Linux compatible and Can you give estimate release date for the Beta ?
          I want to use it under Linux with mono and NHibernate.
          • 2. Re: Fully managed ODP.NET
            Alex Keh - Product Manager-Oracle
            - Do you have plans to release it via nuget (including pre-release package)?

            No, this is not currently planned. No one has requested this feature on the [Oracle .NET feature request page|https://apex.oracle.com/pls/apex/f?p=18357:46:1381145137698301:::::].

            If you feel this feature is important, please create a feature request. Oracle will monitor the request and how many votes it receives to prioritize features in future releases. You can monitor how much support each feature request has over time.

            I am curious to find out what advantages Nuget will provide you over Oracle's installer for fully managed ODP.NET installation. Can you elaborate why Nuget support will be a significant help for you?


            - Will it support migrations and entity framework 5 features like enums and spatial types?

            Extremely unlikely in the first release, but more likely for the following release. Again, please use the feature request page. It helps the Oracle team prioritize what is important to its customers. Someone has already created an entry for migrations, but not for enums nor spatial types.


            - I have also one question about release timeframes. Microsoft EF Team want release its product more frequently. Will you be able to keep pace with them?

            Oracle production releases will not be as frequent as Microsoft's EF releases, but we will try to support new EF features our customers request. Keep in mind, that ODP.NET and Oracle Developer Tools are tied to .NET Framework/ADO.NET and Visual Studio versions. Oracle syncs closely with these MS releases first and foremost because every Oracle .NET developer uses these components, but not necessarily EF.


            I want to ask if it will be Mono/Linux compatible and Can you give estimate release date for the Beta ?

            The beta will be in the current quarter, which means sometime between now and end of June. However, Oracle will not formally support Mono in this beta or the first production, though theoretically fully managed ODP.NET should just work with Mono.
            • 3. Re: Fully managed ODP.NET
              Slawek Rosiek
              Thank you Alex for your answer.

              - NuGet package just simplified and arrange dependencies management. It can also improve build process, because I don't need install ODP on build agent. Having the NuGet package can also improve upgrade path - I just upgrade it in all project of my solution and everybody have a new version without need of upgrading it on all computers. It can also add some necessary configuration to project. Except that Microsoft is going to increase using NuGet - look at ASP.NET MVC project - it use NuGet out of the box. BTW Current ODP in NuGet isn't from you?

              - I'm a little disappointed, that every new feature that comes to Entity Framework must be requested to be supported by ODP. I think that customers that requested support EF didn't have in mind EF4 only.
              • 4. Re: Fully managed ODP.NET
                Alex Keh - Product Manager-Oracle
                No, the current ODP.NET Nuget is not from Oracle. It appears anyone can create a Nuget package and upload it to the gallery. Let me look into Nuget.

                Regarding supporting new features in EF, EF support competes with other features for Oracle development resources. Some customers want ADO.NET non-EF features supported, such as async. Some want Oracle to support LightSwitch. Some want more Oracle RAC features in ODP.NET. Some want more DB tools exposed in Visual Studio. Some want a fully managed provider. Some want Linux support. Some want Xamarin mobile support. Some want the latest version of VS 11 and .NET 4.5 certified. There is a whole universe of possible features to implement, but a limited number of developers to implement them with.

                So how does Oracle decide? We ask our customers, whether with the feature request tool or direct contact. They tell us what to focus on and Oracle adjusts its priorities accordingly. This is the same method that Microsoft uses to decide what new features to put into EF as well. They also have a feature request tool.
                • 5. Re: Fully managed ODP.NET
                  441662
                  I would like to participate in this beta for fully managed ODP.NET.
                  • 6. Re: Fully managed ODP.NET
                    Alex Keh - Product Manager-Oracle
                    Dan,
                    You're already on the list of beta participants. You'll hear from me when it's ready.
                    • 7. Re: Fully managed ODP.NET
                      user519843
                      You know what, the coolest move Oracle could do, is make the driver open source! That would win quite a bit from the community.

                      I know it will not happen in this universe, but in some other parallel universe, you could have a popular and feature rich driver :)

                      Imagine living in that world!
                      • 8. Re: Fully managed ODP.NET
                        929915
                        Do you have a roadmap for the next releases of odp.net? I developed VS plugins using odpnet and we plan to migrate to VS11 when it will be final and we would like to know if we'll have support for vs11 from odpnet
                        • 9. Re: Fully managed ODP.NET
                          Alex Keh - Product Manager-Oracle
                          There is an Oracle for VS 11 beta planned in the very near future, but I don't have a public date to share. Keep a look out on Twitter @OracleDOTNET or the monthly Oracle .NET newsletter.

                          Keep in mind that ODP.NET is not certified with VS specifically. It is certified with .NET Framework versions. You can use ODP.NET with any version of VS as long as that version of VS supports the specific .NET Framework version the ODP.NET version you are using.

                          If your software works with .NET 4 and VS 11, then ODP.NET is certified for this combination. If you are using .NET 4.5, ODP.NET will soon certify for this version of .NET Framework as well.
                          • 10. Re: Fully managed ODP.NET
                            Slawek Rosiek
                            Hi Alex,

                            Does "fully managed ODP.NET" beta will be work on .NET4.5 Beta/RC with Entity Framework. I dont mean that it will be support new features but just work.
                            What are benefits and improvemnts of the Fully managed ODP.NET. I saw your presentation (PDF only) and I know that deployment will be easier. But are there other improvements eg. performance, new features or you just rewrite the internals of the native odp.net?
                            Does Oracle plans other improvemnts/new features in ODP.NET for this year or you just work on fully managed ODP.NET and bugfixing?
                            • 11. Re: Fully managed ODP.NET
                              Alex Keh - Product Manager-Oracle
                              Does "fully managed ODP.NET" beta will be work on .NET4.5 Beta/RC with Entity Framework. I dont mean that it will be support new features but just work.

                              Not in the first beta, but a subsequent beta will have this functionality.

                              What are benefits and improvemnts of the Fully managed ODP.NET. I saw your presentation (PDF only) and I know that deployment will be easier. But are there other improvements eg. performance, new features or you just rewrite the internals of the native odp.net?

                              All the key improvements are listed in the presentation. I'll have a white paper available that covers these details in-depth if you weren't able to attend the OpenWorld presentation. With respect to performance, it's not clear how much net benefit there will be. Yes, there will no longer be interop between unmanaged and managed code, but the interop's overhead had already been minimized in ODP.NET's current implementation. Meanwhile, C code is always going to be faster than managed code and most of ODP.NET's dependent DLLs are C-based.

                              Does Oracle plans other improvemnts/new features in ODP.NET for this year or you just work on fully managed ODP.NET and bugfixing?

                              There is going to be many other improvements, which I'll discuss closer to the applicable release.
                              • 12. Re: Fully managed ODP.NET
                                137504
                                I voted for EF5 and support for Spatial types in the feature request application. I noticed that there were two similar feature requests - perhaps these could be consolidated?
                                • 13. Re: Fully managed ODP.NET
                                  Alex Keh - Product Manager-Oracle
                                  These two spatial requests should be separate because they expose two unique sets of functionality, even if they accomplish somewhat of a similar task. ODP.NET has its own way to generate user-defined types (UDTs) separate from Entity Framework.

                                  ODP.NET could expose spatial types only for its own custom UDTs, but that would mean these spatial types could only be used outside of EF's infrastructure. If ODP.NET only exposed spatial types as part of EF, then Oracle Spatial users would have to change their infrastructure to use EF to use these types, which is a non-trivial thing to do.
                                  • 14. Re: Fully managed ODP.NET
                                    Pat
                                    Microsoft SqlServer 2008 also exposes Spatial Types out of the box,
                                    so it would be nice if ODP.NET would also expose all Spatial Types out of the box (indeed not using Entity Framework at all).
                                    This will reduce the need for everyone to develop their own Spatial classes.
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