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12 Replies Latest reply: Jun 14, 2012 4:11 AM by gimbal2 RSS

further developement of j3d?

941725 Newbie
Currently Being Moderated
Dear Group,
I'd thought to come back using java3d (since 1.3.) but I'd realized that the latest development of j3d was in 2008. So is there a stop of j3d development? Are there other plans e.g. from oracle with j3d including in the sdk (the old dream...) or something else...or is java3d just going to be a dying environment, so starting a new development will be a fight against windmills...
in the hope getting a nice answer :)
kind regards
rolf
  • 1. Re: further developement of j3d?
    gimbal2 Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    Java3D was moved to the java.net community. If the community doesn't do anything with it, you might as well consider it dead. Many of the Sun provided APIs have gone that way, its a bit of a shame really but fortunately like many things in the Java world: there are always alternatives. JMonkeyEngine is for example a high level 3D toolkit that is actively developed. Its aimed at game development where Java3D was more general purpose, but you should be able to develop any kind of 3D application with it.

    http://jmonkeyengine.com/


    Checking the jira of java3d, like expected people are still adding issues but nobody is responding to them. It looks pretty dead to me.

    http://java.net/jira/browse/JAVA3D
  • 2. Re: further developement of j3d?
    941725 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    best thanks for the hints and the jmonkey link looks/sounds very good...
    but sad for java3d and my older work...I'd developed something like a
    web3d-gis ~10 years ago (stopped 5 years ago)
    ....and it seem that it'll disappear or doing again
    with anything else...start again... :(
    so hopefully somebody will tell in this thread that something other
    will happend with the in my eyes very nice j3d,
    wouldn't that a good throw implementing any 3d-libarys into the j-sdk...
    the web goes more and more in 3d especially maps...
    kind regards
    rolf
  • 3. Re: further developement of j3d?
    gimbal2 Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    gmrolf wrote:
    wouldn't that a good throw implementing any 3d-libarys into the j-sdk...
    You don't want that. Java 8 is going the other way: yanking stuff out of the JDK to make it smaller and in stead define everything as installable modules. Better keep everything separate and simply pick the APIs/frameworks that you need in stead of having one monstrous JDK.
  • 4. Re: further developement of j3d?
    941725 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    ok thats a point, but in the past a huge barriere
    for common endusers was the additional installation of j3d...
    which was minimized by the j3d crew using jnlp/webstart
    for getting the libs - I'd recognized -hopefully wrong -
    that this will no work correctly anymore using j3d...

    the other solution seem to send bigger libarys
    directly in the directory of the offered software,
    so any rotating cube will be use the same things as
    any huge 3d-app thing will use...finally users have the same libarys
    in many products...
    hmmm... advantage/disadvantage...i don't really know....
    kind regards
    rolf
  • 5. Re: further developement of j3d?
    gimbal2 Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    finally users have the same libarys in many products...
    That is quite common practice in any platform. Sharing libraries is easier to manage but can create huge compatibility issues at the same time.

    The main disadvantage here is that Java3D has OS-specific binaries, that works against the whole "compile once, run everywhere" principle that used to be the main selling point of the Java platform as you cannot just slap a single version of Java3D in your application and expect it to work; you need a very specific release of it that matches the end-user's system architecture. That makes it a whole lot harder to manage deployment of your application; the need to install Java3D as a separate product used to be the chosen solution to ease that a bit so Sun had to deal with it in stead of us developers.

    That practice is diminishing nowadays (although Microsoft still likes it a lot seeing that I'm managing 4-5 versions of .NET, Games For Windows Live, XNA and whatever other crud on my system), it is better to create installation packages of your software which deliver the stuff bundled so the end-user is never bothered more than once (at download time, picking the right download package).
  • 6. Re: further developement of j3d?
    941725 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    yes, this sounds logical and making sense for that afaik all the j3d stuff is opensource, so everything should be includable in any product.
    Anyway I'm still on hope that anybody can tell further solutions. jmonkey sounds and views really good, but I have to start to relearn many
    things again and forget some things...seem to be the it-way....fortran90 is also lost in my brain....
  • 7. Re: further developement of j3d?
    gimbal2 Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    gmrolf wrote:
    but I have to start to relearn many things again and forget some things...seem to be the it-way....
    Yep. Programming is hard, software development is even harder. If that were not true we would not be needed.

    Do you really need such high level bells and whistles I wonder, or do you want to work with minor 3D features? Lots of people doing 3D stuff actually stick close to the low level API, which in this case is OpenGL. In that respect there is for example LWJGL to provide a neat Java binding for it (and also things such as sound and input), but there is also the very cool LibGDX which also makes deployment to Android devices possible.

    And an alternative to JMonkeyEngine is Xith:

    http://xith.org/

    But now I'm just Googling for you, I'm pretty sure you can do that yourself ;) For a community more aligned to your needs I would check out java-gaming.org, that's where most of the Java folks doing 3D / game development stuff hang out (including me ;) ).
  • 8. Re: further developement of j3d?
    941725 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    yeah.... i know very well what you're talking about :)
    thing is that I'd developed a web3d-GIS (uhh) 10 years ago and I'd ended with developement 5 years ago due other works...now I wanna come back and everything I'd known is away...or pretty stagnant as j3d...
    I'll try your hints, thanks for feeding Google ;) and will have further looking for what I/we want/need.... seem to be very huge (new) possibilities...not only java based...the snake.py offers also many chances....just entering a new universe
    what I like to have is a good and easy to use 3d api for displaying, manipulating, animating and anlyzing 3d data for scientific usage ( no problem using game-engines if they calculate correct :)...also of course db-drivers like jdbc has and bring this all together in a performant way using a most huge kind of very different formats for geodata and 3d modells, textures a.s.f.
    thanks a lot!
    kind regards
    Rolf
  • 9. Re: further developement of j3d?
    gimbal2 Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    gmrolf wrote:
    what I like to have is a good and easy to use 3d api for displaying, manipulating, animating and anlyzing 3d data for scientific usage
    That is a really specific area; there are probably plenty of science-oriented solutions out there but I'm betting that most of them are commercial in nature. If you would want to roll your own then probably you'd need something scenegraph oriented like Java3D. That would be something to Google for, "java scenegraph". For example I came up with JReality:

    http://www3.math.tu-berlin.de/jreality/index.php?article_id=73

    But again, JMonkeyEngine also has Scenegraph support built in.
  • 10. Re: further developement of j3d?
    941725 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    yepp a scenegraph structure will be nice (and well known), so another very best thanks for your help! I'm gonna have a look in all those deeper now ther're several possibilities to go...I have to lighten the jungle :)
    best thanks!!!
    rolf
  • 11. Re: further developement of j3d?
    gimbal2 Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    Interestingly enough I ran into this:

    http://www.java-gaming.org/topics/prebuilt-java3d-jars-with-jogl2-backend-available/26463/view.html

    A new implementation of the Java3D API built on top of JOGL.
  • 12. Re: further developement of j3d?
    941725 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    yes I'd found it too a few days ago :)...hopefully something like a new start...anyway we have to look what to do, there're also several other technics to do so...e.g. jmonkey could be possible for the java-side ....vtk,python and so far do also a lot of things :)

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