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5 Replies Latest reply: Jun 21, 2012 10:57 AM by Wes Fang RSS

This section needs to be restructured

Wes Fang Explorer
Currently Being Moderated
Still one section for all of JDeveloper and ADF? Really?

How about new sections and subsections for

JDeveloper 10g
-ADF Faces
-ADF Bindings & Controller
-ADF BC
-General/Misc

JDeveloper 11g
-ADF Faces
-ADF Bindings & Controller
-ADF BC
-General/Misc

Also, provide better search capabilities such as the ones in vBulletin.

-Wes
  • 1. Re: This section needs to be restructured
    Frank Nimphius Employee ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    Hi,

    honestly, what sounds like an idea is hard to manage.

    We do have an internal forum that is split up as you suggest (its not split by JDeveloper versions but ADF BC, ADFc, ADFv, ADFm, IDE etc). The problem is that with such a disparate forum you will have to spend time to educate forum users on which forum to post a question. Internally we see most questions posted to the view forum as many think that any problem that surfaces to the view must be a problem of the view. If you look at how questions are asked and answered here on the OTN forum then you observe that not many questions directly point to the layer of origin for a problem. Instead problems are described by use cases or failed implementation attempts. People frequently answering questions - like John Stegeman and Timo Hahn - spend a lot of time narrowing problem to the layer that causes the issue. Have a look at your own posts and you see what I mean. So splitting up the forums only works if i) people with questions know where to post it to, ii) people answering the questions have the nerves and time to look at several different forums instead of just one.

    Not sure you recognize the "Tags" line below the forum questions. If you would tag your question / or answer accordingly then this would do almost what you want. You could add the JDeveloper version, ADFv, ADFm, ADFbc etc for the problem area plus some more indicators that would produce this thread when someone searches for the key words

    I can't remember last time I used the search capabilities of the forum as I have Google up all the time (often the solution of a problem is within a blog, which Google then brings up as well)

    Frank
  • 2. Re: This section needs to be restructured
    John Stegeman Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    I agree with Frank here - splitting the forum like that would be unmanageable.

    However, I do think something needs to be done about the Fusion Apps - in the past it was always easy to say "Bug off and go to {forum:id=210}" but now, there's no fusion apps DEV-type forum, and plus the tech stacks are almost the same (we just don't have all of the special fusion apps components in ADF), so I'm actually at a loss at what to suggest.
  • 3. Re: This section needs to be restructured
    Frank Nimphius Employee ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    ... its a JDeveloper and ADF forum after all. People that have questions for a sophisticated environment not everyone has available need to break it down to a generic test case that uses the HR schema and that allows people answering the forum to reproduce it. Though the OA forum may no longer be applicable for Fusion Apps questions, I am sure the Oracle Apps team has a way for their customers to address those kind of questions

    Frank
  • 4. Re: This section needs to be restructured
    Timo Hahn Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    ... its a JDeveloper and ADF forum after all. People that have questions for a sophisticated environment not everyone has available need to break it down to a generic test case that uses the HR schema and that allows people answering the forum to reproduce it.
    which from my experiance is as hard to educate poelpe on as it is with the internal forums :)

    Timo
  • 5. Re: This section needs to be restructured
    Wes Fang Explorer
    Currently Being Moderated
    We do have an internal forum that is split up as you suggest (its not split by JDeveloper versions but ADF BC, ADFc, ADFv, ADFm, IDE etc).

    I would like to see this for the public, at a minimum it should be categorized by the aforementioned core components.

    The problem is that with such a disparate forum you will have to spend time to educate forum users on which forum to post a question. Internally we see most questions posted to the view forum as many think that any problem that surfaces to the view must be a problem of the view. If you look at how questions are asked and answered here on the OTN forum then you observe that not many questions directly point to the layer of origin for a problem.

    This is sort of like the chicken or the egg delima. I believe categories will only help in the long run. To elaborate, oracle needs to work (even) harder on expanding this forum into a true user driven community. The altruistic task of diligently combing the threads and helping user should be shared by designated moderators. Similar to the current system, mods can be designated internally and selected based community contribution. Perhaps, offer some incentives, and more importantly, empower these individuals to have common thread tools such as moving, merging, locking threads. That’s all just the very basics of contributing factors of a popular user driven community.


    Instead problems are described by use cases or failed implementation attempts. People frequently answering questions - like John Stegeman and Timo Hahn - spend a lot of time narrowing problem to the layer that causes the issue. Have a look at your own posts and you see what I mean. So splitting up the forums only works if i) people with questions know where to post it to, ii) people answering the questions have the nerves and time to look at several different forums instead of just one.

    Speaking as a user of various other large forums, I can say for sure that there will always be “noobs” that repost and don’t follow thread edict, but over time and critical responses by the rest of the community, these users eventually learn the ropes and at times even integrate into the forum as helpful contributor. Refer to my above reply regarding a strategy for time and resource spent on helping users.

    Now if you allow me to indulge for a moment, beyond what I already mentioned, I would like to see an unified and dedicated site for all jdev resources with the forum being the central component supported by user driven content such as articles, media, blogs, code repo and even a weblogic staging environment where developers can demo personal code for everyone to see. The forum can also have regional section which can host monthly hackathons sponsored by oracle.

    Please don’t be offended but JDev/ADF needs to go grass root and local! For example, I live in nyc and have attended local tech meetups. There are many developers there that showcase their own projects using various technologies, Microsoft and Google are often present. On a couple of occasions, Microsoft liaisons would support engineers and promote their sdk by giving them access to xbox, knintic hardware. On other occasions, sponsors would establish mentorships that directly connect knowledge experts with developers working on their own projects. In turn, these engineers would build projects using supplied technology and showcase them to the audience. ADF Evangelists need to get on the ground floor and go toe to toe with the other guys or even more convincing, give developers access to an individually affordable public stage (oracle cloud), offer educational licenses and sponsor local or university lead projects.

    I sat through Larry’s speech last year and heard how useful the oracle cloud could be for everyone. Well, that outlook is going to be bleak without much much MUCH more passionate and “home grown” ADF developers. JDev and its architects have come a long way, it would be an understatement for me to say that all of you (and us non oracle employees) would like to see adoption by the developer community at large. Of course, the same rules go for any big corporate entity, and that’s the amount of bureaucratic tape around how ideas like this could even be proposed internally, but it has to start somewhere. I urge those of you who can make that slight difference to voice what lots of non oracle employee is thinking, and that’s how to build a bigger ADF community. Apologies, I digressed quite a bit.

    -Wes