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      • 15. Re: Recomendations for a web framework?
        gimbal2
        936517 wrote:
        I agree, Spring + JSF + Hibernate has a heavy learning curve. I suggest a simpler framework.
        There is no such thing as a simpler framework. If there was people wouldn't keep asking the "which framework to use" question without getting any sort of clear answer. It all depends on both the requirements and your personal needs. Wicket was named - a very cool framework which suffers from being backed by lacking documentation (nothing Google can't solve). But it has a very specific design philosophy which mimics a lot how you would build a client side GUI application (for example using Swing). If that's not your thing, Wicket fails you.

        Replace "simpler" with "fitting" and I'd agree with you ;)
        • 16. Re: Recomendations for a web framework?
          903917
          Came across this quote right from the horses mouth (http://struts.apache.org/roadmap.html#obsolete)...

          >
          Is Struts 1 obsolete?
          No.

          There is a robust and vibrant community of developers using Struts 1 in production, and we expect that thousands of teams will continue to base new projects on Struts 1, and continue to support existing projects, for many, many years to come.

          New and improved extensions for Struts 1 continue to appear regularly. In 2006 alone, we saw releases of Hoople, Strecks, JSP Control Tags, Sprout, Spring Web Flow, DWR, Calyxo, FormDef, and Java Web Parts. There are dozens of books and hundreds of articles available to help people get started with Struts 1 or improve the application they already have.

          Since the merger, Struts 1 has gone on to release a new minor version, Struts 1.3, and new 1.x releases are being planned. Struts 1 continues to be the most popular and best supported web application framework for Java.

          Of course, if you are starting a new project, and have your choice of frameworks, this might be a good time to consider whether you would like to continue to use Struts 1 or whether it's time to try Struts 2.
          >

          Not sure if there's a end-to-end tutorial or not, but you can find lots of documentation and examples at http://struts.apache.org/1.3.10/learning.html. If you're interested in using the more modern Struts 2, check out http://struts.apache.org/2.3.4/docs/home.html
          • 17. Re: Recomendations for a web framework?
            gimbal2
            There are also lots of people still using EJB 2.1 tech... that doesn't mean its a good idea to adopt it for new projects even though Oracle will probably never release a statement directly mentioning it is obsolete.

            The existence of Struts 2 is proof enough that even Apache found it time to move along to greener pastures.
            • 18. Re: Recomendations for a web framework?
              948407
              gimbal2 wrote:
              Wicket was named - a very cool framework which suffers from being backed by lacking documentation (nothing Google can't solve). But it has a very specific design philosophy which mimics a lot how you would build a client side GUI application (for example using Swing). If that's not your thing, Wicket fails you.
              I'll take a look at Wicket. The first 2 releases of my app are Swing-based and, some years ago, I knew how to use Swing very well...

              Another question: for developing the backend, is a good idea to use EJB? In the 2 tutorials I'd followed until now (NetBeans E-Commerce and Java EE 6 First Cup) they use EJB + JPA, and they seems very powerful and easy to use... If not, what do you recommend? I don't need webservices, only a business layer and a data access layer.
              • 19. Re: Recomendations for a web framework?
                DrClap
                If you're looking for a web framework which actually bills itself as "simple" then you could have a look at Front Man.
                • 20. Re: Recomendations for a web framework?
                  aksarben
                  The big problem with Struts, my experience, is it doesn't scale well. I have to maintain a legacy Struts 1 app with about 100 pages, and tracing the logic flow through various pages is a nightmare. Struts may have been a good idea in its time, but I'd avoid it like the plague if I had a choice.
                  • 21. Re: Recomendations for a web framework?
                    aksarben
                    If you want a pure Java implementation, I'd strongly recommend Wicket. I've been using it for about a year, and like more the more work with it. It works especially well for large apps with lots of pages and/or complex logic. Because it's pure Java, you debug everything in your favorite IDE (Eclipse?) just like any other Java app.
                    • 22. Re: Recomendations for a web framework?
                      gimbal2
                      mcasas wrote:
                      Another question: for developing the backend, is a good idea to use EJB? In the 2 tutorials I'd followed until now (NetBeans E-Commerce and Java EE 6 First Cup) they use EJB + JPA, and they seems very powerful and easy to use... If not, what do you recommend? I don't need webservices, only a business layer and a data access layer.
                      EJB 3.1 is quite easy to deploy as you can for example also put EJBs in the WAR. It is however not technology that you easily apply as it requires a lot of understanding from the dev, especially the transaction management of it. For a web application that does not hook into a larger enterprise application I'd say "nay nay" to using EJBs, its just yet another layer you don't need. It can benefit you to use the Java Persistence API however.
                      • 23. Re: Recomendations for a web framework?
                        903917
                        Would you say the same for Struts 2 or have you only worked with 1?
                        • 24. Re: Recomendations for a web framework?
                          jschellSomeoneStoleMyAlias
                          aksarben wrote:
                          The big problem with Struts, my experience, is it doesn't scale well. I have to maintain a legacy Struts 1 app with about 100 pages, and tracing the logic flow through various pages is a nightmare. Struts may have been a good idea in its time, but I'd avoid it like the plague if I had a choice.
                          And so you claim is that this is a failure solely caused by Struts?

                          Rather than nothing more than a poor implementation or even design?
                          • 25. Re: Recomendations for a web framework?
                            DrClap
                            The web application world is full of things which don't scale. Try this experiment:

                            (1) Write a web application which uses CSS to control the appearance of the UI.

                            (2) Keep going until your web application has about 100 pages (generated by whatever framework you like) and your CSS has about 100 selectors.

                            Now pick one of the selectors and try to figure out which pages use that selector. Unless your selectors and pages are very simple, you won't be able to do it. And then you won't be able to answer the question "What will be affected if I change this selector?"

                            And remember that just about every competent web designer told you that you should stop hard-coding appearance into your HTML and start using CSS to control the appearance. None of them mentioned that it wouldn't take long for your CSS to get out of control. But it does -- CSS doesn't scale. (I know, saying "None of them" about a million people on the web is bound to be wrong. I'm probably off by a small fraction there.)
                            • 26. Re: Recomendations for a web framework?
                              gimbal2
                              One can argue that the web as a whole doesn't scale very well. That's a bit of a side effect when you abuse a system built to share static documents to build whole application platforms on :/ I hate the whole HTML 5 deal but I'm actually very curious to see what kind of a mess exists in 1-2 years time.
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