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      • 45. Re: multiple uses for Oracle database server?
        OlaTunde
        The Online import export business management and the online registration and payment system for users of measuring devices cover the whole country. my guess is there will be millions of users.

        I'm thinking of using 2 processors servers. and Oracle database standard edition because of costs.

        Please what is your advice

        Thank you.
        Rex
        • 46. Re: multiple uses for Oracle database server?
          713555
          OlaTunde wrote:
          The Online import export business management and the online registration and payment system for users of measuring devices cover the whole country. my guess is there will be millions of users.

          I'm thinking of using 2 processors servers. and Oracle database standard edition because of costs.

          Please what is your advice

          Thank you.
          Rex
          As earlier advised, Go to dell and HP product pages. any of the g7 or g8s will do.

          Are there millions of users in the measuring devices game? Really? Use an app server with connection pooling.
          • 47. Re: multiple uses for Oracle database server?
            OlaTunde
            What utilities and software will I use to configure the connection pool in the app server? what and what do I need? how will I achieve it?

            Thanks
            Rex

            Edited by: OlaTunde on Jul 31, 2012 8:51 AM

            Edited by: OlaTunde on Jul 31, 2012 8:53 AM
            • 48. Re: multiple uses for Oracle database server?
              APC
              You are some very basic and broad-ranging questions about hardware and architecture. Entire books are written on these topics. It's way beyond what you can reasonably expect people to answer in a DBA forum.

              If your organisation is intending to build a system which really will have millions of users then they should appoint somebody who understands the issues, rather than entrusting it to somebody who has to ask random strangers on the internet for advice. No offence intended.

              Cheers, APC
              • 49. Re: multiple uses for Oracle database server?
                OlaTunde
                Thank you for your answer.
                • 50. Re: multiple uses for Oracle database server?
                  Billy~Verreynne
                  deebee_eh wrote:

                  Are there millions of users in the measuring devices game? Really? Use an app server with connection pooling.
                  Why introduce an app server? This simply adds ANOTHER moving part.. it makes the distance between application code (Java in this case) and the data (SQL) a lot longer and crossing h/w boundaries. This has a significant performance impact. That the J2EE crowd attempts to address this by adding more hardware, caching database data and so on. This now turns the database into a pretty useless bit bucket as you no longer can access the database via SQL to get consistent and committed data, as some of this is now cached in the app layer and you now need to talk to that expensive, superfluous and redundant layer to get to data instead of the database.

                  Sorry. From my perspective your advice is EXACTLY why there are performance issue with corporate systems. The DATA needs to scale... and moving that data from the database (a mature, robust, performant and incredibly scalable layer) into an app layer and then attempt to scale that, are simply, and utterly, bloody idiotic in my view.
                  • 51. Re: multiple uses for Oracle database server?
                    OlaTunde
                    oracle Database 11g comes with DRCP (database resident connection pooling).
                    So, I'll just configure the feature.

                    Thanks
                    • 52. Re: multiple uses for Oracle database server?
                      Billy~Verreynne
                      Connection pooling does not address the issue of network latency between Java code making a SQL call, and the data for that SQL call being delivered. Nor does abstract interfaces like Hybernate contribute to efficient and performant client-server interaction. It often does the exact opposite. Worsens performance and scalability.

                      Using a Java app tier and excluding PL/SQL as a major part of the app layer, is a major flaw and primary contributor to poor J2EE performance. And contributes to the very expensive "solutions" (h/w) required to make the app layer scale.

                      That is the point I'm making.
                      • 53. Re: multiple uses for Oracle database server?
                        Mark D Powell
                        APC has a very valid point. Also does millions of users mean that the sytem will be keeping tract of millions of users or that millions of users will be logging into the system. These are very different things. If you want to size your machines you need to estimate the concurrent user load, that is, how many users will be logged on at any one moment in time. What kind of workload will each user be doing? You can then use the number of concurrent users, memory requriements for each session, and cpu usage per session to estimate your total needs.

                        You then match the version of Oracle you need based on the size of machine you need.

                        HTH -- Mark D Powell --
                        • 54. Re: multiple uses for Oracle database server?
                          713555
                          Billy  Verreynne  wrote:
                          deebee_eh wrote:

                          Are there millions of users in the measuring devices game? Really? Use an app server with connection pooling.
                          Why introduce an app server? This simply adds ANOTHER moving part.. it makes the distance between application code (Java in this case) and the data (SQL) a lot longer and crossing h/w boundaries. This has a significant performance impact. That the J2EE crowd attempts to address this by adding more hardware, caching database data and so on. This now turns the database into a pretty useless bit bucket as you no longer can access the database via SQL to get consistent and committed data, as some of this is now cached in the app layer and you now need to talk to that expensive, superfluous and redundant layer to get to data instead of the database.

                          Sorry. From my perspective your advice is EXACTLY why there are performance issue with corporate systems. The DATA needs to scale... and moving that data from the database (a mature, robust, performant and incredibly scalable layer) into an app layer and then attempt to scale that, are simply, and utterly, bloody idiotic in my view.
                          I work on many systems with application servers with connection pooling, and there are no perfomance problems, so a bit rash to say "advising use of an app server is the EXACT reason why performance issues occur". You might not know them, but there are some good people out in j2ee. Ive met many.

                          Question for you. You have a million users. All with hand held devices. How would you let them at the database?
                          • 55. Re: multiple uses for Oracle database server?
                            OlaTunde
                            please tell me how?
                            • 56. Re: multiple uses for Oracle database server?
                              Billy~Verreynne
                              deebee_eh wrote:

                              I work on many systems with application servers with connection pooling, and there are no perfomance problems, so a bit rash to say "advising use of an app server is the EXACT reason why performance issues occur". You might not know them, but there are some good people out in j2ee. Ive met many.
                              Please introduce me. :-)

                              My experience is the exact opposite where zero database knowledge is the norm, and the database a simplistic means for data persistence, and treated as a bit bucket.
                              Question for you. You have a million users. All with hand held devices. How would you let them at the database?
                              That depends entirely on WHAT they intend to do. My largest database did an average of 43,453 rows/sec inserts (brand new data) for Tuesday, yesterday. All that data was enriched and aggregated and analysed. Into a number of layers. Which meant table joins and even more rows selected and created.

                              And this was done using SQL and PL/SQL only - no Java layer. No app servers.

                              Oracle scales extremely well. Oracle performs extremely well.

                              Can the Oracle database supports a million users? Well, what on earth makes you think that a J2EE layer can support a million users?

                              I'm pretty sure for every reason given, there is an equally relevant, and likely better, database reason.

                              Scalability to serve a million users load starts with the database layer. Not the application layer. The application layer does not scale the database layer. Does not make a single SQL faster. The database layer however does scale the application layer.

                              The data is the core. Not the application. Scalability and performance need to focus on the core. Throwing 20 more app servers into the app cluster and bumping up the connection pool to the database, does not make a single database SQL call faster.

                              Okay, so I am painting a pretty black-and-white picture here. And there are several (50? ;-) ) shades of grey. So it is not all that straight forward as I'm making it out.

                              But the fact that J2EE proponents and developers largely ignore the inherent performance and scalability of the database, and abuse it as a mere bit bucket, is well established. And the fact that this approach, and ignorance of the database, causes a significant negative impact on both performance and scalability, is undeniable.
                              • 57. Re: multiple uses for Oracle database server?
                                OlaTunde
                                Thanks a lot Bill, you're a great professional

                                Rex

                                Edited by: OlaTunde on Aug 6, 2012 1:00 AM
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