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Why no Software library

KSG Explorer
Currently Being Moderated
Hi Friends,

Why there is no full Oracle Software library maintained by anyone, even Oracle.com do not have all set of Oracle software available (only latest available). Even Oracle itself don't support for older version of Software, but there is always need for the older version of software in the library.

edelivery.oracle.com has a few older version software available

Regards
KSG
  • 1. Re: Why no Software library
    sybrand_b Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    KSG

    The keyword here is 'desupport'. Oracle releases new versions and expects you to upgrade. Also Oracle doesn't do anything to resolve new bugs in that software.
    As it is not in Oracle's interest customers remain on desupported software, this software is removed from download areas.
    As there is such a thing as system backups, there would be little need for that software.
    If you are a licensed customer with a support contract (CSI) you can always submit a SR to obtain it from Oracle.
    I don't think you can download Microsoft Windows 3.1 anywhere, or Office 2007, so I don't know why you expect this from Oracle.

    -----------
    Sybrand Bakker
    Senior Oracle DBA
  • 2. Re: Why no Software library
    KSG Explorer
    Currently Being Moderated
    Everything is fine..

    Just maintaining a tab with software library won't be that much harm. (even no 10g software available, there are servers still running in 8 and 9 releases)

    Regards
    KSG
  • 3. Re: Why no Software library
    Mark D Powell Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    Old versions of Oracle software are available to licensed accounts via the Service Request process. I also think Oracle should keep some older products, specifically Windows clients, available for download without needing an SR.

    HTH -- Mark D Powell --
  • 4. Re: Why no Software library
    EdStevens Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    KSG wrote:
    Everything is fine..

    Just maintaining a tab with software library won't be that much harm. (even no 10g software available, there are servers still running in 8 and 9 releases)

    Regards
    KSG
    Yes, there are people running stuff that old -- and older. But it's Oracle's position that they shouldn't be running those old versions. So why would they (Oracle) be expected to make available software that they do not want people to use?
  • 5. Re: Why no Software library
    Girish Sharma Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    As other have posted, this is Oracle wish that people should use newer version because they are having new features, less bugs, faster performance, easy maintenance and much more security and robustness; just like suppose you have developed a software version 1.0 and now working on 12.0, will you not have wish that people should use new version, so that they can enjoy your skills and investment in the development. How long you will support older version ? Will you not unhappy to see a support request for say suppose 5.0 or 6.0; thinking like "Shit, people still in 19th Century" :)

    If you or anyone wish to get the older version then why not they had build their own library or contact their friend/group, if they wish to test/debug them, right ?

    So, as person have feelings, same feelings have companies too...!

    Regards
    Girish Sharma
  • 6. Re: Why no Software library
    KSG Explorer
    Currently Being Moderated
    I'm not opposing the business strategy followed by Oracle.

    From the user point of view, there are 101 reasons to stay with the older version itself.

    I'm just trying to know what's the strong reason behind not having even 10g software.

    And if Oracle wishes to force everyone to upgrade to latest version, then why they are providing Sw on demand raising SR?

    Again, Noting is going to up-side down if Oracle itself would be providing access to earlier version of Software :)

    Also, everyone is supporting whatever the Oracle decides even everyone of us still using/searching the earlier version of software :)

    Regards
    KSG
  • 7. Re: Why no Software library
    sybrand_b Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    Again, Noting is going to up-side down if Oracle itself would be providing access to earlier version of Software 
    It would cost money, wouldn't it, because Oracle would need to have it available for all different platforms.
    Also, everyone is supporting whatever the Oracle decides even everyone of us still using/searching the earlier version of software 
    Not everyone of us is still searching. Most people take care about media and take system backups.
    That your organisation doesn't seem to do that, is not an issue for Oracle. They provided a method to get the stuff, when you are licensed.
    Your insistence seems to indicate you have no support and are nagging about a 'software library' because you have no backups and can not submit a SR.

    ----------
    Sybrand Bakker
    Senior Oracle DBA
  • 8. Re: Why no Software library
    Justin Cave Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    KSG wrote:
    Again, Noting is going to up-side down if Oracle itself would be providing access to earlier version of Software :)
    Remember that Oracle is far more willing than most large software companies to make production software available for download to the world. You certainly can't go over to the Microsoft site and download Windows, Office, Visual Studio, etc. free of charge for personal enrichment. That openness is a major potential source of lost revenue for Oracle due to piracy.

    One way Oracle mitigates that risk is by keeping older versions under tighter control. Since 99.9% of the time, when someone wants an old version of the software they want it to support some existing production application, Oracle wants to do everything in their power to ensure that those customers actually purchased licenses, rather than just using the software they downloaded from OTN, and that they have a support agreement. If the customer has a valid license and support contract, Oracle is happy to give you the old version. If the customer doesn't have a valid license, they're happy to sell you a license and get you the old version.

    If Oracle made it too easy for customers to run unlicensed versions of Oracle in production, there would come a point where the losses due to piracy outweighed the gains from letting people get experience with the software. When that happened, Oracle would have to stop giving us the open access we enjoy today. That, obviously, would be a much bigger issue than the occasional need to log a SR to get an old CD.

    Plus, the old versions of the software are much less useful today than they were in the past because any legitimate customer would need to download and apply patches from Metalink before doing anything with it. Someone that legitimately needed 10.2 software today, for example, would almost certainly need to get the 10.2.0.4 patchset from Metalink as part of the installation process-- running an unpatched 10.2 database would be rather silly. If you've got to go to Metalink to get the patchset anyway, the additional cost of going to Metalink to request the base version is not that high.

    Justin
  • 9. Re: Why no Software library
    Mark Malakanov (user11181920) Expert
    Currently Being Moderated
    All this creates interesting situation.

    If you have perpetual license you can run/use the software forever and nobody can enforce you to upgrade.
    But as soon as the software has been desupported, you cannot create CR to download the software, unless you buy an Extended Support, I assume. ;)

    Oracle informed you about desupport date.

    Saying all that you can use old software but you are responsible to keep a copy of the software initial installation, and copies of all patches you were entitled while you were supported.

    what you can do now?
    May be ask from other people who has the software initial installation?

    But is it legal for somebody else to share their copy of the software initial installation, and copies of all patches you were entitled while you were supported?
    I assume - yes. But I am not a lawyer and I do not know for sure.
  • 10. Re: Why no Software library
    Justin Cave Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    user11181920 wrote:
    But is it legal for somebody else to share their copy of the software initial installation, and copies of all patches you were entitled while you were supported?
    I assume - yes. But I am not a lawyer and I do not know for sure.
    I would be shocked (though I haven't read the agreement in ages) if the license you agreed to with Oracle allows you to redistribute the software to a third party. It is almost certainly not legal (at least in the US, laws in other countries may vary but I expect most would follow the US) to distribute software to a third party even if you believe the third party had previously licensed the software. That's basically what SAP just lost a $306 million dollar lawsuit over.

    Now, whether anyone is likely to actually come after you for doing so on a one-off basis is a separate issue.

    Justin
  • 11. Re: Why no Software library
    Mark Malakanov (user11181920) Expert
    Currently Being Moderated
    well. what do you suggest to do in this situation?
    to buy extended support for old version? or one-off support? is it available?
  • 12. Re: Why no Software library
    Justin Cave Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    If you are running an old version of Oracle in a production environment, you have let support on that software expire, and you need a fresh copy of the installation media (along with, presumably, the patchsets you need for that version), yes, you probably need to renew your support agreement. And that most likely means that Oracle is going to want you to pay for support between the time your support contract expired and today (Larry does have to keep up with his yacht insurance).

    Of course, if you are using Oracle in a production environment, you probably ought not let your support agreement lapse in the first place.

    Justin
  • 13. Re: Why no Software library
    Mark Malakanov (user11181920) Expert
    Currently Being Moderated
    Of course, if you are using Oracle in a production environment, you probably ought not let your support agreement lapse in the first place.
    It is not a user who let support expire.
    The support for old versions is simply stopped by Oracle.
    Unless user buys Extended Support.

    Is purchasing Extended Support the only legal option to get copy of the software user has license on?
  • 14. Re: Why no Software library
    Justin Cave Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    If your support agreement is current, I would expect that Oracle would send you the old software under the sustaining support policy. Sustaining support is forever and does not require any additional fees (other than, of course, regular support renewal fees). It doesn't give you everything that extended support does but it would allow you to request old media.

    Justin
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