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Mandatory text box for oracle verison

Manik Expert
Currently Being Moderated
Experts/Moderators,

Just a small suggestion, may not be an important one, but I always felt that, we need to have a special dropdown box (mandatory) which should have oracle versions, so that user will have to select it which helps in volunteers a better scope about the problem.

Please share your thoughts on this..

Cheers,
Manik.
  • 1. Re: Mandatory text box for oracle verison
    PhHein Guru Moderator
    Currently Being Moderated
    Hi Manik,

    that would not be useful for e.g. the Java and Solaris subforums and implementing it for just the Oracle DB subforums would be a little too much effort. The volunteers can always ask if they have the feeling that the question/problem might be version related.

    Regards, Phil
  • 2. Re: Mandatory text box for oracle verison
    BluShadow Guru Moderator
    Currently Being Moderated
    It's been requested several times before.

    Standard answer: The version of Jive software currently used on the forums is old and unsupported and cannot be changed.

    Oracle are in the process of aquiring and setting up/testing etc. some new forum software and have already requested (last year) for people to supply a list of ideas and ways to improve the forums, to see what could be implemented.

    I don't know what suggestions were made or what Oracle will be implementing in the new forums, or even when those new forums are going to be available, but I'm confident that someone would have suggested some sort of template with mandatory fields to be filled in when making a post, including version numbers etc.
  • 3. Re: Mandatory text box for oracle verison
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    It might be a question of common sense or ignorance, but I do not believe that anyone able to find this forum does not know about the impact of software versions and providing a minimum of information. I don't know, but I can imagine that the majority of people who are not providing at least the version of Oracle software involved, are simply paranoid and afraid to provide such info, for instance, because they are using software features for which they have no licensing. As such they are just fishing for information and are mostly likely not interested in providing feedback either. Sometimes you may run into people who do not have a clue or are working beyond their abilities. Helping those can be challenging anyway and some do not even know what version of software they are using, or how to obtain such information.
  • 4. Re: Mandatory text box for oracle verison
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    You are describing a planet inhabited by idiots. Which sounds about right.

    So what do we do?

    I suggest taking off and nuking it from orbit. That's the only way to be sure...

    ;-)
  • 5. Re: Mandatory text box for oracle verison
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    Well, that's not what I said or at least not the message I intended. But if you are ready for lift-off, and I had anything to say about the orbit... Well, perhaps it was a good idea to confine the human species to planet earth, where it will cease to exist or kill itself once all resources are consumed, probably even sooner. I'm afraid the universe still isn't going to be big enough ;-)
  • 6. Re: Mandatory text box for oracle verison
    EdStevens Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dude wrote:
    It might be a question of common sense or ignorance, but I do not believe that anyone able to find this forum does not know about the impact of software versions and providing a minimum of information. I don't know, but I can imagine that the majority of people who are not providing at least the version of Oracle software involved, are simply paranoid and afraid to provide such info, for instance, because they are using software features for which they have no licensing. As such they are just fishing for information and are mostly likely not interested in providing feedback either. Sometimes you may run into people who do not have a clue or are working beyond their abilities. Helping those can be challenging anyway and some do not even know what version of software they are using, or how to obtain such information.
    I think you give them far too much credit. When you see the preponderance of people who don't even know what a command line is, the people who simply dump very plain error messages with the appearance of having not even attempted to read an understand, people who say "the documentation is too difficult for me", people who have been somewhat active for several years but appear to have learned nothing about either Oracle or general troubleshooting skills, people who blithely post their email address or critical connection information .... it's hard to believe they are clever enough to try to hide that they are using unlicensed software.
  • 7. Re: Mandatory text box for oracle verison
    jgarry Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    I've seen plenty of posts from people who know full well the necessity of versions, but simply forget that they are in the middle of a problem that others are new to.

    I see a problem with a mandatory single version in a text box, some issues cross versions - like upgrades, for an obvious one. With multiple versions mandatory, you have both specificity and verification issues.

    In other words "we all know" what is meant by requiring a version, but it is not well-defined in a design sense. Not all issues are version dependent, and with various patching routines both over time and hardware it's not trivial to have a canonical list. And you can't say "just require something" or you will get marketing terms.
  • 8. Re: Mandatory text box for oracle verison
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    I think that most people who are not providing basic information, such as the product version, are withholding such information on purpose. Most of them are probably hoping to get by without giving out any information about themselves or what they are doing wrong. And to my experience, these people most likely do not want to provide feedback or invest much effort to find a solution anyway.

    I guess once people have to fill in a mandatory form about product versions, there will be less posts or more posts with wrong information. However, I think, some option, not mandatory, to select possible product versions, could make things easier and last not least remind people about the forum topic.

    Edited by: Dude on Jan 14, 2013 6:16 PM
  • 9. Re: Mandatory text box for oracle verison
    BluShadow Guru Moderator
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dude wrote:
    I think that most people who are not providing basic information, such as the product version, are withholding such information on purpose. Most of them are probably hoping to get by without giving out any information about themselves or what they are doing wrong. And to my experience, these people most likely do not want to provide feedback or invest much effort to find a solution anyway.
    I think you're being too suspicious of people.

    From my experience, many who don't provide version details etc. are either just being lazy in asking their questions (usually also obvious by the lack of other useful information that would help to answer their question), or are too naive and it doesn't occur to them that the answers can be dependent on their version. With most, the version can be coaxed out of them when you actually tell them that the answer will depend on what version they're using... and many who ask questions here are clearly working for large organisations who will no doubt have paid for their oracle software and will not be illegally using things they shouldn't; after all, those people can install and use the full features of the oracle RDBMS for development purposes, and the licencing is only needed if such things are used in production, so there's no problem with anyone asking questions about features that they are not licenced for in production... they may be trying to figure out if certain features will provide the benefit they need, before up-licencing to it.
  • 10. Re: Mandatory text box for oracle verison
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    BluShadow wrote:

    I think you're being too suspicious of people.
    Concur. People are not naturally sly (such as withholding version info). People are naturally lazy - and do not think/see pass their noses as it is too much of an effort.

    Easily substantiated by postings asking the simplest of general questions, as it is too much effort to filter and read through Google results, or do a sqlplus test case, and easier to ask it instead on OTN and have others do the work for you...

     
    PS. Blu, please edit and spell check the posting for me, cheers. :-)
  • 11. Re: Mandatory text box for oracle verison
    BluShadow Guru Moderator
    Currently Being Moderated
    Billy  Verreynne  wrote:
    BluShadow wrote:

    I think you're being too suspicious of people.
    Concur. People are not naturally sly (such as withholding version info). People are naturally lazy - and do not think/see pass their noses as it is too much of an effort.

    Easily substantiated by postings asking the simplest of general questions, as it is too much effort to filter and read through Google results, or do a sqlplus test case, and easier to ask it instead on OTN and have others do the work for you...

     
    PS. Blu, please edit and spell check the posting for me, cheers. :-)
    pass => past

    next time do it yourself. :p
  • 12. Re: Mandatory text box for oracle verison
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    Well, I'm suspicious of anything that seems strange to me. Why would someone you describe discuss a problem in a public forum rather than opening a SR with Oracle? Does the customer perhaps not trust Oracle Support? Does the person not want to create a SR that a colleague or boss might see and question? Or does the person perhaps not have a license to use the software or feature, or is simply not sure about it?

    Naturally lazy, clueless or plain stupid, people are all sort of things, but many people are unnecessarily paranoid these days. Some people may prefer to withhold as much information as possible, in particular about anything to do with the Internet and computers, and often for good reasons. I find it too hard to believe that the majority of IT people posting here forgets to mention the product version because they are lazy or idjuts, or think its not important.
  • 13. Re: Mandatory text box for oracle verison
    Boneist Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dude wrote:
    I find it too hard to believe that the majority of IT people posting here forgets to mention the product version because they are lazy or idjuts, or think its not important.
    On the contrary, I find it easy to believe that people just forget or don't realise they need to add it or whatever; I've forgotten to add the version number on more than one occasion (usually despite the fact that I've said to myself "don't forget to put the version number in!" during the writing of the post!) - yes, I really am that forgetful. Sometimes you get too bogged down in your issue and, in your haste to try and put as much info out there, you forget to add the basics!

    {noformat}*shrugs*{noformat} Everyone can be forgetful, blinkered and just plain dumb upon occasion; it's the context of the forum posting that determines whether it's endemic or transient *{;-)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
  • 14. Re: Mandatory text box for oracle verison
    BluShadow Guru Moderator
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dude wrote:
    Well, I'm suspicious of anything that seems strange to me. Why would someone you describe discuss a problem in a public forum rather than opening a SR with Oracle?
    Because sometimes you can get a quicker response from the people on the forum, and it may be more that they know it's just a lack of their own understanding than a bug or serious system issue. Most developers will seek help from other developers before calling directly on oracle support. Oracle support is mainly for issues where you have a live system that's got problems, or you've exhausted all standard avenues of finding the solution to your problem, such as interacting with other developers. Can you imagine how quickly issues would get supported if all the thousands of posts that we receive on these forums each day were just raised with Oracle support? Many of them would be low priority and takes days or weeks to get a response, and then everyone's support costs would go up (as if they're not enough already!).
    Does the customer perhaps not trust Oracle Support? Does the person not want to create a SR that a colleague or boss might see and question? Or does the person perhaps not have a license to use the software or feature, or is simply not sure about it?
    I think you're being suspicious about people again. Not everyone has some ulterior motive, and not everyone has oracle support. Many are just learning stuff for themselves and want to interact in a community of experts.
    Naturally lazy, clueless or plain stupid, people are all sort of things, but many people are unnecessarily paranoid these days. Some people may prefer to withhold as much information as possible, in particular about anything to do with the Internet and computers, and often for good reasons. I find it too hard to believe that the majority of IT people posting here forgets to mention the product version because they are lazy or idjuts, or think its not important.
    You're entitled to your opinion. I still think you're wrong as, I feel, do many of the experts here. There's no real benefit from withholding information that is pertinent to an issue. Yes there may be the odd person who doesn't want their boss to know they are using the forum, but we don't all work in an environment where it's seen as wrong to seek help online for an every changing technology.
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