This discussion is archived
1 2 3 Previous Next 40 Replies Latest reply: Feb 14, 2013 12:16 PM by 801338 Go to original post RSS
  • 15. Re: can java app programmer make secure app?
    maheshguruswamy Journeyer
    Currently Being Moderated
    RichF wrote:
    Mahesh, thank you for the reply. It seems strange advice to receive on an official Java programming forum, though. ;)

    I have not programmed with JavaScript, except to convert one script into a Java class. It did not strike me as a full programming language. Maybe I just misunderstand it or am behind the times. Specifically, would you want to convert the [url http://r0k.us/graphics/SIHwheel.html]Interactive Color Wheel to a JavaScript equivalent? In addition to the color wheel pane itself, there is the menu, the scrolling color list which can be reloaded and have many thousands of entries, the handling of several different color lists themselves, sorting the selected one in multiple ways, etc. It sure sounds like something one would want a full language for...
    Oh, I can't forget Spot, the Magic Color Dog! :)

    That said, I am considering doing a stripped-down thingy in JavaScript. Differentiating it from pre-existing JavaScript color wheels might be problematic, though. Well Javascript is a full programming language (supports OOP and Functional programming styles) in my mind. For some folks, things like weak typing is a deal breaker, so to each its own. I would convert any UI component that requires a plug-in to javascript/html. Of course there will be a server component which would feed the page the data it needs to function and that can definitely be a java based server. I wouldn't recommend storing all that data on the client side.
  • 16. Re: can java app programmer make secure app?
    EJP Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    Don't take it the wrong way. I think applets (and browser plug-ins in general) are on their way out.
    In your opinion.
    Dump applets and redesign that page will plain HTML/Javascript. Your application can now run pretty much everywhere without any plug-ins.
    Easy to say. Not so easy to do, and impossible in a lot of cases.
  • 17. Re: can java app programmer make secure app?
    EJP Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    It seems strange advice to receive on an official Java programming forum, though. ;)
    That doesn't imply that it's official advice. It isn't. This is a user to user forum, and there are very few 'official' participants on it. None on this thread that I am aware of.
  • 18. Re: can java app programmer make secure app?
    maheshguruswamy Journeyer
    Currently Being Moderated
    EJP wrote:
    Don't take it the wrong way. I think applets (and browser plug-ins in general) are on their way out.
    In your opinion.
    Dump applets and redesign that page will plain HTML/Javascript. Your application can now run pretty much everywhere without any plug-ins.
    Easy to say. Not so easy to do, and impossible in a lot of cases.
    Never said it will be easy. Just curious, can you give me an example of a plug-in based UI that you think would be impossible to convert to HTML?
  • 19. Re: can java app programmer make secure app?
    DrClap Expert
    Currently Being Moderated
    maheshguruswamy wrote:
    Never said it will be easy. Just curious, can you give me an example of a plug-in based UI that you think would be impossible to convert to HTML?
    Sure, there's this applet which I wrote which searches out a particular file on the client machine and uploads it to the applet's host.

    You may say that HTML allows you to upload a file, and so it does, but it requires the user to navigate to the file and select it for upload. My applet doesn't require that, and it's a useful feature. And also the applet deletes the file after it's successfully uploaded and processed, which as far as I know you can't do with HTML.
  • 20. Re: can java app programmer make secure app?
    EJP Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    Just curious, can you give me an example of a plug-in based UI that you think would be impossible to convert to HTML?
    An amazing question, after you've already advised him to do it. Consider a Telnet applet. Consider any applet that uses the local file system, or that does networking other than via HTTP. The list is endless. The fact is that only a very small class of applets can be converted to use HTML, namely the ones that are already HTML- and HTTP-like.
  • 21. Re: can java app programmer make secure app?
    maheshguruswamy Journeyer
    Currently Being Moderated
    EJP wrote:
    Just curious, can you give me an example of a plug-in based UI that you think would be impossible to convert to HTML?
    An amazing question, after you've already advised him to do it. Consider a Telnet applet. Consider any applet that uses the local file system, or that does networking other than via HTTP. The list is endless. The fact is that only a very small class of applets can be converted to use HTML, namely the ones that are already HTML- and HTTP-like.
    Point taken. My advice still stands for the OP though. I don't see any reason for using an applet for his particular requirement.
  • 22. Re: can java app programmer make secure app?
    EJP Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    I don't consider that he's given us nearly enough information about his requirement for you to make that judgment. You're just jumping to conclusions again. From what he's told us I would make the opposite judgment.
  • 23. Re: can java app programmer make secure app?
    801338 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    Point taken. My advice still stands for the OP though. I don't see any reason for using an applet for his particular requirement.
    The only reason I can think of to rewrite it is to enable a stripped down version to run on tablets and smartphones. Since I don't yet know JavaScript, it would take many, many hours to do just that. A full port, if even possible, would take weeks or months of my spare time. Why bother when it works great as is? There is a temporary security issue that has nothing to do with my program to begin with, and could well crop up as a temporary issue with JavaScript at some point in the future.

    The [url http://r0k.us/graphics/SIHwheel.html]Interactive Color Wheel is a program; I do not think of it as an applet or plugin. I admit those terms apply technically. Yet once I added the full GUI two years ago, it became more:

    <li> menu bar
    <li> help with pop-up windows
    <li> color lists
    <li> sorts
    <li> auto-play
    <li> a log trace-back of all selected colors
    <li> adaptable color list with replaceable sets of color dictionaries
    <li> and likely more I cannot think of right now

    Is porting all that really a project you yourself would want to undertake using just HTML and JavaScript? Can you point me to something of equal capability and complexity written in JavaScript?

    I admit to not knowing the full capabilities of JavaScript and HTML 5. There could be full, mature, JavaScript programs. If so, I would like to see a couple.
  • 24. Re: can java app programmer make secure app?
    Kayaman Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    RichF wrote:
    Is porting all that really a project you yourself would want to undertake using just HTML and JavaScript?
    Is there something wrong with learning new technologies? Although I wouldn't bother (then again, if they were my programs I might care more).
    I admit to not knowing the full capabilities of JavaScript and HTML 5. There could be full, mature, JavaScript programs. If so, I would like to see a couple.
    Well, since we are talking about porting old applications... how about this: http://www.wolfenstein.com/
    Of course that's originally from the 90's, but still.
  • 25. Re: can java app programmer make secure app?
    maheshguruswamy Journeyer
    Currently Being Moderated
    RichF wrote:
    Point taken. My advice still stands for the OP though. I don't see any reason for using an applet for his particular requirement.
    The only reason I can think of to rewrite it is to enable a stripped down version to run on tablets and smartphones. Since I don't yet know JavaScript, it would take many, many hours to do just that. A full port, if even possible, would take weeks or months of my spare time. Why bother when it works great as is? There is a temporary security issue that has nothing to do with my program to begin with, and could well crop up as a temporary issue with JavaScript at some point in the future.

    The [url http://r0k.us/graphics/SIHwheel.html]Interactive Color Wheel is a program; I do not think of it as an applet or plugin. I admit those terms apply technically. Yet once I added the full GUI two years ago, it became more:
    <li> menu bar
    <li> help with pop-up windows
    <li> color lists
    <li> sorts
    <li> auto-play
    <li> a log trace-back of all selected colors
    <li> adaptable color list with replaceable sets of color dictionaries
    <li> and likely more I cannot think of right now

    Is porting all that really a project you yourself would want to undertake using just HTML and JavaScript? Can you point me to something of equal capability and complexity written in JavaScript?

    I admit to not knowing the full capabilities of JavaScript and HTML 5. There could be full, mature, JavaScript programs. If so, I would like to see a couple. There are tons of HTML based color pickers. Google is your friend. Here are a couple to get you started

    http://jscolor.com/
    http://bgrins.github.com/spectrum/

    Obviously it is not going to give everything you need, so be prepared to customize them as needed.
  • 26. Re: can java app programmer make secure app?
    maheshguruswamy Journeyer
    Currently Being Moderated
    EJP wrote:
    I don't consider that he's given us nearly enough information about his requirement for you to make that judgment. You're just jumping to conclusions again. From what he's told us I would make the opposite judgment.
    The OP has a complicated interactive color picker. I don't see any reason why it cannot be in HTML/Javascript.There are many javascript based color pickers out there. If http://www.google.com/logos/2012/nemo/nemo12.html can be done in HTML, I don't see why the OPs requirement cannot be done in HTML. The only reason I have seen so far against doing it in HTML is the OP's hesitation to learn advanced javascript. Why do you think this color picker should not be done in HTML?
  • 27. Re: can java app programmer make secure app?
    801338 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    There are tons of HTML based color pickers. Google is your friend. Here are a couple to get you started
    ...
    Obviously it is not going to give everything you need, so be prepared to customize them as needed.
    "A +color picker+"?? {sigh} (I wrote a complicated toy color picker. How nice.)

    I am well aware of a number of specialized, great, tools involving color which already exist. The bottom of my page has numerous links to some of those and other educational color resources.

    That's what my Interactive Color Wheel is -- an educational resource. Does it allow one to select a color and see its complement? Yes. But that is only like 1% of its capability, and added only due to visitor requests.

    Somehow I have failed to communicate the scope of what is offered, both within the applet itself and the page as a whole. I'll have to accept part of the blame in not clearly conveying my message. That said, I have to wonder how good your vision is. Unless you can see more than a "color picker", we're talking about two different things.

    -- Rich
  • 28. Re: can java app programmer make secure app?
    abillconsl Explorer
    Currently Being Moderated
    Everyone has to make up their own mind about such things, but after reading through this post, and considering that ... money is not involved; the OP didn't say that "nobody" visits his page anymore; that likely a better and more permanent fix will be available soon - just my guess there - I wouldn't bother re-writing the application ... at least not unless I actually had the desire to rewrite it for other reasons. If he was depending on this for money, I might possibly think differently.

    Is there a way to get good credibility into search engines that will fend off peoples fears about making that extra click to get the Applet going? I imagine there must be, but never having had to do such a thing I'm certainly not the one to provide the answer/s to my own question. Does certifying the Applet help if he loads via JNLP?
  • 29. Re: can java app programmer make secure app?
    maheshguruswamy Journeyer
    Currently Being Moderated
    RichF wrote:
    There are tons of HTML based color pickers. Google is your friend. Here are a couple to get you started
    ...
    Somehow I have failed to communicate the scope of what is offered, both within the applet itself and the page as a whole. I'll have to accept part of the blame in not clearly conveying my message. That said, I have to wonder how good your vision is. Unless you can see more than a "color picker", we're talking about two different things.

    -- Rich
    I dont have a vision for your+ application. Its your headache not mine. All I have is an opinion and its based on what I see in the applet on your page. Take it for what its worth. After spending a few years rewriting flex based UIs to plain HTML all I can say is, if you want your "Application" to run on tablets, smartphones and other devices, you have only two options

    1. Build out device specific native applications (learn iOS, Droid etc) and maintain the applet for the desktop
    2. Build out a purely HTML based UI backed with a server side of your choice and have it run everywhere

    None of the options have applets or browser plug-ins in the picture. So the sooner you accept the fact that you have to redo the entire application in another platform (or maintain a skinny version), the better off you will be. Its your call.

    If you just want to stick with desktop based java enabled browsers, then by all means stay with the applet.

Legend

  • Correct Answers - 10 points
  • Helpful Answers - 5 points