1 2 3 Previous Next 30 Replies Latest reply: Mar 16, 2013 3:40 AM by Billy~Verreynne Go to original post RSS
      • 15. Re: Hybrid RAC
        Justin_Mungal
        This thread is painful. He's trying to implement an active/passive solution because he heard RAC is "complicated," but hasn't bothered to investigate it himself. Really this thread has just become about us helping him write scripts, and doesn't seem to be Oracle related anymore.
        • 16. Re: Hybrid RAC
          Nicolas.Gasparotto
          EdStevens wrote:
          yxes2013 wrote:
          Thanks Hem,
          <snip>
          I do not like to use OEM becuase I do not know how to set it up :(
          At what point in your career do you intend to correct that deficiency?
          According to many of his/her others thread, especially Oracle 12c Db (to quote... I dreamed of working easy(no stress) but with high pay ...), never.
          For me, this is nothing but dumb and spoonfeeding.

          Nicolas.
          • 17. Re: Hybrid RAC
            yxes2013
            Ouch! you are hurting my feelings :(
            At what point in your career do you intend to correct that deficiency?
            I thought OEM is already phased out :)


            Ouch again!
            Our sysadmin got error and was not able to setup the active/passive failover using OCFS2 and heartbeat :(
            Can you give me docs on how to set it up please.

            Are you really sure it is better to use RAC? I have read it and it seems very complicated.
            Can I use it on 10g SLES 11? Can I use clusterware 11g on 10g database?

            By the way, given 2 desktop and a NAS storage. Can I make RAC out of it? or at least Active/Passive setup.


            Please help.....

            Thanksssss
            • 18. Re: Hybrid RAC
              yxes2013
              Hi again all,

              I ask our sysadmin and he said we have SAN, DAS, and NAS storage types.
              Can all of this types qualified to be a RAC storage?


              Thanks,
              • 19. Re: Hybrid RAC
                Billy~Verreynne
                yxes2013 wrote:

                I ask our sysadmin and he said we have SAN, DAS, and NAS storage types.
                Can all of this types qualified to be a RAC storage?
                SAN and NAS, yes.

                DAS likely not. Last time I saw DAS used was on Pyramid Reliant MPP clusters in the 90's. It is not exactly common in my experience with cluster storage.

                For RAC, I recommend SAN. If NAS is used, then it should be via a dedicated and private network. Preferably it should also be (QDR/40Gb) Infiniband and not (10Gb) Ethernet.
                • 20. Re: Hybrid RAC
                  Billy~Verreynne
                  yxes2013 wrote:

                  Our sysadmin got error and was not able to setup the active/passive failover using OCFS2 and heartbeat :(
                  Can you give me docs on how to set it up please.
                  ocfs2 needs an Interconnect - a communication backbone between ocfs2 nodes, allowing ocfs2 based communication. This is configured via the +/etc/ocfs2/cluster.conf+ file. Must be identical on all ocfs2 nodes.

                  It can be via the public network between these ocfs2 nodes. Preferably, it should be via a dedicated high speed private network between cluster nodes.
                  Are you really sure it is better to use RAC? I have read it and it seems very complicated.
                  We only use RAC. All stand-alone database servers in our case have been phased out and replaced with RAC.
                  Can I use it on 10g SLES 11? Can I use clusterware 11g on 10g database?
                  Yes. I recommend using Oracle Linux 5.x or 6.x instead,. 10g is old and support limited. 11gr2 is current, mature and robust. The cluster portion is called Grid Infrastructure and installs separately from the RDBMS s/w.
                  By the way, given 2 desktop and a NAS storage. Can I make RAC out of it? or at least Active/Passive setup.
                  No. Not a good idea. A desktop is not a server.

                  RAC is about:
                  - high availability
                  - redundancy
                  - scalability

                  Desktop h/w does not support these well, if at all.

                  The 2 main components of RAC is shared cluster storage and Interconnect.

                  For shared storage you want multiple I/O paths to the storage.

                  For the Interconnect, you need a dedicated and private high speed and low latency network between cluster nodes. You also want multiple paths. This means:
                  - 2 Interconnect interfaces on each node, bonded
                  - each interface wired to a different switch
                  - 2 private switches
                  - switches connected to one another and nothing else
                  - the only other connection to the switches being for management

                  This is not complex. It is specific ito what the infrastructure must be in order to achieve the goals of high availability, redundancy, and scalability.

                  Hardware costs are also no that expensive. Commodity servers are cheap (pizza box Intel/AMD servers). HBA (fibre channel to SAN) and HCA (Infiniband connection to Interconnect switches) PCI cards and cables are not expensive. Infiniband switches are not that costly either (at or below Gig Ethernet switch costs).

                  The real expense is the s/w that makes this h/w scale and perform - Oracle RAC.

                  As for setup, config, and installation - not complex. The installation manual goes in step-by-step detail. Of course, a certain level of o/s knowledge is needed as the manual does not know what storage and what Interconnect are being used and cannot tell you how to configure these non-Oracle vendor components.
                  • 21. Re: Hybrid RAC
                    Justin_Mungal
                    >
                    The real expense is the s/w that makes this h/w scale and perform - Oracle RAC.
                    It's included with Standard Edition from 10g and up.
                    • 22. Re: Hybrid RAC
                      Nicolas.Gasparotto
                      [off topic]
                      Ok, out of your question, but
                      yxes2013 wrote:
                      ...
                      I thought OEM is already phased out :)


                      Ouch again!
                      You said earlier : "I do not like to use OEM becuase I do not know how to set it up". Rather not very positive attitude. It's not because you don't know something that you don't like it and won't use it.
                      And no, whether DB Console is going to be deprecated/obsolete, it's not the case for OEM Grid Control.

                      Nicolas.
                      [off topic]
                      • 23. Re: Hybrid RAC
                        Billy~Verreynne
                        Justin Mungal wrote:
                        The real expense is the s/w that makes this h/w scale and perform - Oracle RAC.
                        It's included with Standard Edition from 10g and up.
                        But it is limited in scalability and functionality. Yes, great that Oracle provides this as a feature with SE. But no, if you want to scale to 10+ nodes in the cluster to do serious data crunching, EE RAC is the only candidate. :-)
                        • 24. Re: Hybrid RAC
                          Justin_Mungal
                          Billy  Verreynne  wrote:
                          Justin Mungal wrote:
                          The real expense is the s/w that makes this h/w scale and perform - Oracle RAC.
                          It's included with Standard Edition from 10g and up.
                          But it is limited in scalability and functionality. Yes, great that Oracle provides this as a feature with SE. But no, if you want to scale to 10+ nodes in the cluster to do serious data crunching, EE RAC is the only candidate. :-)
                          Agreed, but in the OP's situation it might be better off to start with a 2 node RAC SE cluster. He can later upgrade the cluster to EE or migrate to an EE cluster.
                          • 25. Re: Hybrid RAC
                            jgarry
                            I don't see that the OP has stated in this thread which edition he is talking about.

                            It sounds like the real problem is a hacking mindset that doesn't match up with database realities. I can relate to being a sysadmin control freak and wanting to use a favorite OS and do everything with command lines, but there comes a time when you gots to pays your money and takes your choice. The OP as a contractor has to deal with some possibly unreasonable customer demands and expectations. It does sound like SE RAC is a more reasonable solution than hacking together a bunch of disparate parts and calling it a proper failover setup. But who knows? It's not Amazon, it's not Billy's site, it could be a disaster in the making. Blame the DBA.
                            • 26. Re: Hybrid RAC
                              yxes2013
                              Hi all,

                              I am really confused with all your discussions :( ...wait I will analyzed it first.

                              Do you mean that active/passive setup is not possible? That I should go for RAC and have no other choice?

                              But I just want tell Justin the RAC thing is hard to setup, and has lots of pre-reqs needed. Contrary to my impression on what he said that RAC is easy. :)

                              Based on Billy said it is better to use SAN as this has lesser headache to wit.

                              Can I convert our DAS or NAS to SAN?

                              I understand RAC will use clusterware instead of OCFS2?

                              Can I use 11g clusterware on 10g database to install RAC?


                              I thank you all.

                              Edited by: yxes2013 on 14.3.2013 18:32
                              • 27. Re: Hybrid RAC
                                marksmithusa
                                Why are you so concerned with active/passive? Why are you reducing your processing by 50%?

                                There's a reason why so many people are steering you towards RAC than some peculiar hybrid configuration that sounds like it belongs in the 1990s.

                                RAC is fairly straightforward. You can run cluster verify until you have your configuration setup so it's able to support a RAC database.

                                Is there a reason why you seem to be so determined on spending so much time and effort (I.e. money) in hacking together workarounds for perfectly mature and widely used features all so you can provide half the capability?

                                Who's going to maintain all of this when you leave your job?

                                You can run 10g databases on 11g Grid Infrastructure. The reverse is not true.
                                • 28. Re: Hybrid RAC
                                  Billy~Verreynne
                                  yxes2013 wrote:

                                  Do you mean that active/passive setup is not possible?
                                  Possible. I have seen this used in production.
                                  That I should go for RAC and have no other choice?
                                  I've also seen active/passive work badly. After which I was asked to change it to RAC.

                                  There are always "choices". Often however, there is a single best choice. And in this specific case it is, IMO, RAC.
                                  But I just want tell Justin the RAC thing is hard to setup, and has lots of pre-reqs needed. Contrary to my impression on what he said that RAC is easy. :)
                                  It is easy. If you have sysadmin experience and know o/s config, there is nothing new that you as sysadmin has not done before.
                                  Can I convert our DAS or NAS to SAN?
                                  I would not think so. SAN is a specific type of h/w architecture. NAS and DAS are each a very different h/w architecture too.
                                  I understand RAC will use clusterware instead of OCFS2?
                                  No. Cluster/RAC is 2 basic s/w components. Grid. Database.

                                  Grid is is s/w stack that glues the various server nodes together. For Grid to do that it needs:
                                  - shared storage for storing OCR (Oracle Cluster Registry) and Cluster Voting files
                                  - Interconnect (for private high speed communication between cluster nodes)

                                  Shared storage can be implemented using OCFS2. But this IS NOT recommended. Grid includes ASM (Automatic Storage Manager). This is recommended. ASM provides a better interface/management layer to shared storage than OCFS2. ASM provides a specific type of logical diskgroup (created from shared storage LUNs/disks), specifically for Grid s/w to use for voting and OCR files.

                                  So for Grid to be installed, the h/w needs to have shared storage and an Interconnect. Grid install runs all kinds of checks and even generate fix scripts for you to for example run and fix kernel settings.

                                  The 2nd component to install is the database/RAC. And you select ASM as the storage system for the database(s) created.

                                   
                                  Grid and RAC installs are easy. However, it expects o/s knowledge and experience. It expects you to be able to RTFM.

                                  Those who cannot read instructions in a manual, and execute these, or those who do not know the difference between a local sci device and a SAN/NAS/DAS scsi device/LUN, will have a major problem installing Grid and RAC.
                                  • 29. Re: Hybrid RAC
                                    yxes2013
                                    Thank you so much Billy, you nailed it! :D So far, no one here explains as you do or as knowledgeable as you ;)
                                    I will recommend you to Larry to be his sidekick. Does Larry knew you already?

                                    For the mean time, maybe I will have a long way to RAC.

                                    Since I am in 10g does this mean that It is harder here to install RAC compared to 11g?
                                    Should I migrate to 11g?

                                    Is there a downloadble VMbox that is RAC setup ready?

                                    I wish Larry will produce VMbox that is RAC ready and can be used in production. So that all dba's life will be easy and still with high pay ;)
                                    How is it different from EXADATA?

                                    Thanks everyone and all for your precious time in supporting this forum. Long live Oracle! Our bread-n-butter.