1 2 3 4 Previous Next 51 Replies Latest reply: May 2, 2013 11:45 AM by Aman.... Go to original post RSS
      • 30. Re: Don't you get that feeling ....
        Aman....
        yxes2013 wrote:
        By the way, I just had this wild hunch. That those who are boycotting me seem becoming insecure or threatened of me :(
        The can feel how becoming brilliant I am.
        Because I might surpass their knowledge in an easy way. Could it be the reason? :)
        I am just amazed, truly! How the heck you get such kind of thoughts which are so....NVM! If I were you, I would be only interested in improving my own knowledge which is very less, rather than commenting and passing sarcastic comments over others. This place is not a rocking place because it has many many visitors from all over the world but because it has the best of the bests in the Oracle community sharing their knowledge, discussing things and make people like me, you and all who have a long way to go , to learn this complex technology and solve our doubts , issues. It's a complete privilege to have a chance to discuss things with Gurus like Hemant, Justin Cave, Hemant, Hans , Jonathan Lewis, Mark Powell, Mark Bobak, Sybrand, John, Dom Brooks and many many more as the list is too long to be put up over here. These guys are here almost daily and it's because of their knowledge and experience sharing, this forum is so elite and probably the best! I would suggest that you just concentrate on your knowledge being improved rather than any thing else. If you really think you are really brilliant as you have mentioned, spend some time to solve other's issues too.

        Aman....
        • 31. Re: Don't you get that feeling ....
          jgarry
          Totally agree, and I haven't thanked Hemant enough for the help he's given me over the years (whether he's known it or not :p ), but I'm going to throw out some half-baked devil's advocate thoughts.

          Kids these days, they've been raised on simple computerized apps, including web site queries and voice response telephone trees. Consider a group of computer wannabees, all helping each other kickstart their careers. There certainly can be a downside to this (fake references on resumes, braindumps and so on), but there can be an upside too, namely an enthusiasm for trying and doing, in this case that is delegating work and inquiries to this magic fount of all knowledge. So while there is a need for slapping them down for not trying and doing in the way we as pros expect, there is also an opportunity to redirect the effort in a positive manner.

          Ignoring/shunning doesn't elicit the desired response at all. At best, it is unpredictable, and it can go down from there to creating subgroups of people helping each other do things wrong, while cliquishly reverse-shunning those whom they think are attacking them.

          So I think a patient repetition of how to ask questions, how to search the docs, what the proper ethics are, and so on will have a better effect. People will emulate what they see as a proper response, especially if they see it from the majority. Simple gang-faqs or belittling just doesn't quite do it, we've seen how some people just build bigger defenses against it.

          We don't see the people that go away or are too frightened to come in, only rarely do we see those people actually complain about it elsewhere. They have a point.
          • 32. Re: Don't you get that feeling ....
            EdStevens
            jgarry wrote:
            Totally agree, and I haven't thanked Hemant enough for the help he's given me over the years (whether he's known it or not :p ), but I'm going to throw out some half-baked devil's advocate thoughts.

            Kids these days, they've been raised on simple computerized apps, including web site queries and voice response telephone trees. Consider a group of computer wannabees, all helping each other kickstart their careers. There certainly can be a downside to this (fake references on resumes, braindumps and so on), but there can be an upside too, namely an enthusiasm for trying and doing, in this case that is delegating work and inquiries to this magic fount of all knowledge. So while there is a need for slapping them down for not trying and doing in the way we as pros expect, there is also an opportunity to redirect the effort in a positive manner.

            Ignoring/shunning doesn't elicit the desired response at all. At best, it is unpredictable, and it can go down from there to creating subgroups of people helping each other do things wrong, while cliquishly reverse-shunning those whom they think are attacking them.

            So I think a patient repetition of how to ask questions, how to search the docs, what the proper ethics are, and so on will have a better effect. People will emulate what they see as a proper response, especially if they see it from the majority. Simple gang-faqs or belittling just doesn't quite do it, we've seen how some people just build bigger defenses against it.

            We don't see the people that go away or are too frightened to come in, only rarely do we see those people actually complain about it elsewhere. They have a point.
            Point taken.
            • 33. Re: Don't you get that feeling ....
              jgarry
              Ed, I was going to give your little pastes about bookmarking docs as an example of how to do it right, but was waiting to see how the thread went.
              • 34. Re: Don't you get that feeling ....
                John Stegeman
                jgarry,

                Good points - the last thing I would want to do is to reduce anyone's enthusiasm for learning new things and asking questions. It just gets frustrating when some people are told over and over and over (and over) how best to ask questions and even what terms to Google to find good answers in the docs, and their response is to ignore the help. I am a firm believer that the purpose of formal education up to the university level is to teach you how to learn, as well as of course teach you the basic building blocks such as reading and writing. As such, teaching people how to find things for themselves is, IMHO, much more valuable than typing in the Google search and pasting the results for people. There's two reasons that I participate in these forums:

                a). I like helping people
                b). I like learning new things

                In short, I'm here because it helps me and I enjoy it - let's not pretend that I'm altruistic :) When it's no longer enjoyable to participate and I'm not learning new things, then I'll move on (HA - as if I'll ever stop learning new things about Oracle, who am I kidding).
                there is also an opportunity to redirect the effort in a positive manner.
                I agree - however, some people refuse to be redirected, regardless of how positive the effort is. Fortunately, such people are few and far between (not mentioning any names)

                John
                • 35. Re: Don't you get that feeling ....
                  EdStevens
                  jgarry wrote:
                  Ed, I was going to give your little pastes about bookmarking docs as an example of how to do it right, but was waiting to see how the thread went.
                  ???
                  • 36. Re: Don't you get that feeling ....
                    jgarry
                    Yeah, that's an oddity of our profession - the part of autism spectrum that makes people endlessly focus on details at the expense of social learning, is often a plus!
                    • 37. Re: Don't you get that feeling ....
                      jgarry
                      Sorry, I thought you would know what [url https://forums.oracle.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=10547201#10548275]boilerplate I meant :)
                      • 38. Re: Don't you get that feeling ....
                        EdStevens
                        jgarry wrote:
                        Sorry, I thought you would know what [url https://forums.oracle.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=10547201#10548275]boilerplate I meant :)
                        Sure, but I didn't know what exactly you were referring to, though I was beginning to think that was it.

                        In this case, I'm afraid there's really no hope. The individual in question is on record as stating he doesn't want to read documentation. And apparently doesn't want to read anything that requires him to connect any dots himself.
                        • 39. Re: Don't you get that feeling ....
                          yxes2013
                          Hi all,

                          Good Day everyone!!!

                          RE: Forums upgrade scheduled for May 3-6. More information is available here.

                          I just have an idea. What if part of the upgrade (sooner or later) is that the forum will charge 1$ for each post? And 50c of it will go to the support who give the correct solution first.
                          Is that okay with you? Is this case everyone will reserve their questions for the better and not flood the forum. :)

                          Your comments are welcomed.


                          Thanks
                          • 40. Re: Don't you get that feeling ....
                            John Stegeman
                            I seriously doubt that charging for posts is in alignment with Oracle's purpose in providing the OTN forums
                            • 41. Re: Don't you get that feeling ....
                              Osama_Mustafa
                              i don't guess this is good a idea since it volunteer forum but you can create policy trying to make this forum better such as :

                              1- posting an effective question
                              2- don't hijack threads
                              3- Use the search tools.
                              4- use plain language and be descriptive
                              5- always mark your question as answered after you done.
                              6- finally Patience is a virtue.
                              • 42. Re: Don't you get that feeling ....
                                Girish Sharma
                                What about having an eligibility test for question posting, i mean no member should be allowed to post the question without passing out of such eligibility test?

                                In addition to above, if anyone posts doc question, any sort of advertisement etc. for more than 3 times, those posters should be banned.

                                But why Oracle should bother for such reforms for free service, is unanswerred though!

                                Regards
                                Girish Sharma
                                • 43. Re: Don't you get that feeling ....
                                  Aman....
                                  yxes2013 wrote:
                                  Hi all,

                                  Good Day everyone!!!

                                  RE: Forums upgrade scheduled for May 3-6. More information is available here.

                                  I just have an idea. What if part of the upgrade (sooner or later) is that the forum will charge 1$ for each post? And 50c of it will go to the support who give the correct solution first.
                                  Is that okay with you? Is this case everyone will reserve their questions for the better and not flood the forum. :)

                                  Your comments are welcomed.
                                  Well, you don't need to worry about this as Oracle is having another forum called communities for all the customers who are having valid CSI with them. So if you have one too, check out https://communities.oracle.com . This forum being paid is going to completely destroy the meaning of a free discussion forum .

                                  Aman....
                                  • 44. Re: Don't you get that feeling ....
                                    oralicious
                                    well seeing as we're all having a heart to heart opening up session

                                    how about some frequent posters reading previous answers and seeing that the question has already been answered repat it to get their post count up, in one case I seen the exact same answer repeated 4 posts in a row with the excuse given that the post was still open, like that is a given pass to preclude anyone from viewing the answers already given.

                                    And how about not providing GPA's (garden path answers) which Ive seen more prolific examples in recent months. posting the results of an OERR output, is not an answer, it just gets your post count up.

                                    I posted a question here recently on an insufficient privileges, was a fairly detailed grant with admin example with all the steps Id taken to fix. the answer I got from a poster with a high post count was "fix the privileges". Again, this does nothing but get post count up. If you dont know the answer, you dont have to post the results of an OERR, you dont have to post the link to a document with privileges. the answer could be buried within several hundred pages of that doc which would take weeks to get through.

                                    If thats as helpful as it gets You may as well lock this entire sit down and have one post at the top pointing at tahiti

                                    After ten years, thats the feeling Ive been getting on there for last 12 months or so.