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  • 30. Re: Forum credits and the one million dollar question.
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    Perhaps the older we become, the more we loose our open mind and tolerance. However, nothing is just black or white. The majority of forum members who appreciate receiving points for helpful and correct answers do not necessarily need to spoil their own ego, or are "reward idiots" in the context of what some of you criticize. Just because something sounds reasonable does not mean it is actually the case.

    A forum reward system is just a positive stimulus that can be presented in the process of reinforcing behavior. In fact, our brains have a reward system too and you might want to question what triggers your own behavior. What some of you criticize about the forum reward system is perhaps something that lurks in the dark corners of your own imagination or mindset.
  • 31. Re: Forum credits and the one million dollar question.
    SomeoneElse Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    What some of you criticize about the forum reward system is perhaps something that lurks in the dark corners of your own imagination or mindset.
    OK, dial it back a notch Sigmund.

    The points system has been in place for 5 years. Are the forums better? The posts? The answers? I don't think so. The only noticeably change is the proliferation of point whores: "please mark my post correct..."
  • 32. Re: Forum credits and the one million dollar question.
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    Request about "please mark my post correct..." do not bother me in at all. Why does it bother you? Anyone who receives points for an incorrect answer does not bother me either.

    How the forum might have performed without the point system for the past 5 years is only based on past experience, assumption and last not least prejudice. There are several factors that have influcenced forum posts, and unless anyone can proof that the point system has done more harm than good I think the advantages outweigh the negative side affects.

    I think the point system has improved the forum for the following reasons:

    - it has become easier to spot relevant answers in a thread.
    - it shows which solution the OP has applied or thought was correct.
    - it allows to determine when incorrect answers may require correction.
    - the top user lists show who are experienced posters about a certain forum topic.
    - it encourages me to be more accurate.
    - it may enrourage thread owners to provide feedback.
    - it is more fun to participate and may encourage newcomers.

    etc.
  • 33. Re: Forum credits and the one million dollar question.
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dude wrote:

    I think the point system has improved the forum for the following reasons:

    - it has become easier to spot relevant answers in a thread.
    So answers not awarded points, are not relevant? Answers with points, are relevant, and correct? That is exactly what you are saying...
    - it shows which solution the OP has applied or thought was correct.
    Should that not be determined via discussion?
    - it allows to determine when incorrect answers may require correction.
    Why would the OP bother when he/she already read a posting that is deemed correct, marked it the answer, and walked away from the thread as the thread is now closed for all intents and purposes?
    - the top user lists show who are experienced posters about a certain forum topic.
    Who. The. Hell. Cares?
    - it encourages me to be more accurate.
    Peer review encourages me to be correct. As there are others that will correct me when I am wrong. And not because the OP THINKS I am correct and awards me points for it.
    - it may enrourage thread owners to provide feedback.
    Hahaha... Funny.
    - it is more fun to participate and may encourage newcomers.
    Sorry. That is just plain silly. The fun for me is to deal with interesting problems and trying to resolve them - not having my ego stroke with points.

    If you truly want points and that makes you a happy - by all means. You can have my points. All of them. And roll around in these virtual points having the fun you desire...
  • 34. Re: Forum credits and the one million dollar question.
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    Billy  Verreynne  wrote:
    Dude wrote:

    I think the point system has improved the forum for the following reasons:

    - it has become easier to spot relevant answers in a thread.
    So answers not awarded points, are not relevant? Answers with points, are relevant, and correct? That is exactly what you are saying...
    No, I'm just saying it makes it easier to get right to the spot. I'm not as stupid and blind as you may think and ignore other messages if I'm interested. It depends on the case and how a solution or correct answer was presented.
    >
    - it shows which solution the OP has applied or thought was correct.
    Should that not be determined via discussion?
    That's what I assume the OP has done and so the correct answer is most likely the result of a discussion.
    >
    - it allows to determine when incorrect answers may require correction.
    Why would the OP bother when he/she already read a posting that is deemed correct, marked it the answer, and walked away from the thread as the thread is now closed for all intents and purposes?
    You can still add posts as long as the thread has not been locked by a moderator. The OP receives an email when a thread was updated. I don't know the exact deadlines, but the OP can still change the status of a thread from answered to not answered or add important information to the first post or last post if necessary. If the OP cares there are ways to inform others about the mistake.

    Anyway, what I meant was that there is no need for me to get involved if I can agree that the answer marked as correct is correct. So I don't have to read hundreds of suggestions and opinions to find out what the final conclusion could possibly be.
    >
    - the top user lists show who are experienced posters about a certain forum topic.
    Who. The. Hell. Cares?
    Do you mind if I do? The way how I process information is perhaps different than yours.
    >
    - it encourages me to be more accurate.
    Peer review encourages me to be correct. As there are others that will correct me when I am wrong. And not because the OP THINKS I am correct and awards me points for it.
    A response has a higher change to be marked as correct if the information provided is concise and to the point and does not contain more or less irrelevant and confusing information. It is not always necessary to explain how a clock works if someone asks for the time.
    >
    - it may enrourage thread owners to provide feedback.
    Hahaha... Funny.
    I does encourage me to carefully read all responses in order to determine which response was helpful or correct. I respect that anyone who provides a response expects me to provide a fair judgement to inform about the solution and marking answers according to the forum etiquette. Without the point system, there was less incentive to provide appropriate feedback.
    >
    - it is more fun to participate and may encourage newcomers.
    Sorry. That is just plain silly. The fun for me is to deal with interesting problems and trying to resolve them - not having my ego stroke with points.
    Ego is not necessarily a bad thing and may even help to pursue a problem until it is resolved/or never. If it wasn't for someone's ego "to be right", we would probably not having this discussion at all. Are you sure the point system is mostly about ego? Well, that's funny, because it doesn't for me. ;-)
    >
    If you truly want points and that makes you a happy - by all means. You can have my points. All of them. And roll around in these virtual points having the fun you desire...
    I appreciate your expertise and hope we will continue to exchange information, but thanks I don't want anyone else's points. But nothing should stop you from creating a new user name, e.g. Billy Verreynne 2, which does not show your ACE status or points - in the spirit of not drinking wine and preaching water. ;-)
  • 35. Re: Forum credits and the one million dollar question.
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dude wrote:

    You can still add posts as long as the thread has not been locked by a moderator. The OP receives an email when a thread was updated. I don't know the exact deadlines, but the OP can still change the status of a thread from answered to not answered or add important information to the first post or last post if necessary. If the OP cares there are ways to inform others about the mistake.
    An answered thread, means in all likelihood that the OP found what he/she thinks is an answer, and moved on. And this is because the OP is deemed to be the judge of which one is the correct answer. If instead, that action is done by the community as a peer review process while reading the thread, the correct answer would have a far greater likelihood of actually being the correct answer.
    Who. The. Hell. Cares?
    Do you mind if I do? The way how I process information is perhaps different than yours.
    You're still welcome to all my points. ;-)
    A response has a higher change to be marked as correct if the information provided is concise and to the point and does not contain more or less irrelevant and confusing information. It is not always necessary to explain how a clock works if someone asks for the time.
    No. But it is necessary to explain HOW to read time - as education should be part and parcel of what OTN is about.

    Else what do you get? Posters asking the time repeatedly, as they get slick answers from those who just love the points they can collect by taking the easy way - giving a slick answer instead of trying the difficult part of educating the OP.
    I does encourage me to carefully read all responses in order to determine which response was helpful or correct. I respect that anyone who provides a response expects me to provide a fair judgement to inform about the solution and marking answers according to the forum etiquette. Without the point system, there was less incentive to provide appropriate feedback.
    Nonsense. I have been on support forums back in ILink and Fido days - long before the web. There are MANY people who do not need some silly incentive to assist and educate others. OTN was a working support forum prior to 2008 when points were introduced.
    Ego is not necessarily a bad thing and may even help to pursue a problem until it is resolved/or never. If it wasn't for someone's ego "to be right", we would probably not having this discussion at all. Are you sure the point system is mostly about ego? Well, that's funny, because it doesn't for me. ;-)
    Do not mistake passion for ego. Nor is "getting it right" about ego - it is about countering ignorance. And there's more than enough of that going around - ignorance is a real enemy.
    I appreciate your expertise and hope we will continue to exchange information, but thanks I don't want anyone else's points. But nothing should stop you from creating a new user name, e.g. Billy Verreynne 2, which does not show your ACE status or points - in the spirit of not drinking wine and preaching water. ;-)
    My handle here pre-dates both points and Acehood. Neither which I asked for. Or planned for. Or set as goals.
  • 36. Re: Forum credits and the one million dollar question.
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    Billy  Verreynne  wrote:
    Dude wrote:

    You can still add posts as long as the thread has not been locked by a moderator. The OP receives an email when a thread was updated. I don't know the exact deadlines, but the OP can still change the status of a thread from answered to not answered or add important information to the first post or last post if necessary. If the OP cares there are ways to inform others about the mistake.
    An answered thread, means in all likelihood that the OP found what he/she thinks is an answer, and moved on. And this is because the OP is deemed to be the judge of which one is the correct answer. If instead, that action is done by the community as a peer review process while reading the thread, the correct answer would have a far greater likelihood of actually being the correct answer.
    The correct answer is often a fight between experts who shift to esoteric areas and do not come to an agreement in the end. This is not helpful for the person having a problem and seeking a simple answer. It sounds to me like you are generally assuming that the OP is too stupid to process the received answers and determine which solution worked. Instead you are proposing to patronize the OP and his judgement. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm more interested to help and find out what works for the OP. I am less interested to just satisfy or worship the lobby of experts.
    >
    Who. The. Hell. Cares?
    Do you mind if I do? The way how I process information is perhaps different than yours.
    You're still welcome to all my points. ;-)
    Again I don't need or want your points. I care who is a top poster of a forum because these people are usually more familiar with questions that are typical in regard to a certain forum topic. As such these members eventually have a greater picture or experience with frequent questions than someone who is a newbie or an occasional poster. You may not find this valuable. I have no other way to obtain information about someones background.
    >
    A response has a higher change to be marked as correct if the information provided is concise and to the point and does not contain more or less irrelevant and confusing information. It is not always necessary to explain how a clock works if someone asks for the time.
    No. But it is necessary to explain HOW to read time - as education should be part and parcel of what OTN is about.

    Else what do you get? Posters asking the time repeatedly, as they get slick answers from those who just love the points they can collect by taking the easy way - giving a slick answer instead of trying the difficult part of educating the OP.
    You have different type of posters with different skills and experiences. As far as I know the OTN forum is not meant to be a substitute for proper training or product documentation.

    People who constantly dump wisdom can be very annoying and are often rather selfish in their need having to educate others. A slick answer can also be educating and just contain the information the OP needs to move on. If any OP wants to know more details they usually ask.

    You think it's just about points? Well, unfortunately, understanding what the OP needs to move on and providing a slick answer is not necessarily an ability of every expert. Well, some experts may be great experts, but are not able to provide information in a reasonable dosage and form. This will eventually show up if the OP is the judge using the point system.
    I does encourage me to carefully read all responses in order to determine which response was helpful or correct. I respect that anyone who provides a response expects me to provide a fair judgement to inform about the solution and marking answers according to the forum etiquette. Without the point system, there was less incentive to provide appropriate feedback.
    Nonsense. I have been on support forums back in ILink and Fido days - long before the web. There are MANY people who do not need some silly incentive to assist and educate others. OTN was a working support forum prior to 2008 when points were introduced.
    Nonsense? First of all, it is not nice to call me nonsense, but I guess you are rather misunderstanding the point here. It is not about providing feedback to the OP to gather points. It's about me as the initiator of a question to provide feedback to others who are expecting to receive a fair judgment and points for given answers. Without the point system and being expected to judge answers I may not just walk away with the answer without providing any feedback. While this is still possible, and many users do this, it shows up in the user's profile.
    Ego is not necessarily a bad thing and may even help to pursue a problem until it is resolved/or never. If it wasn't for someone's ego "to be right", we would probably not having this discussion at all. Are you sure the point system is mostly about ego? Well, that's funny, because it doesn't for me. ;-)
    Do not mistake passion for ego. Nor is "getting it right" about ego - it is about countering ignorance. And there's more than enough of that going around - ignorance is a real enemy.
    Everyone is infected. It seems the point system and related "ego" is just an issue for those wanting it to be removed. ;-)
    I appreciate your expertise and hope we will continue to exchange information, but thanks I don't want anyone else's points. But nothing should stop you from creating a new user name, e.g. Billy Verreynne 2, which does not show your ACE status or points - in the spirit of not drinking wine and preaching water. ;-)
    My handle here pre-dates both points and Acehood. Neither which I asked for. Or planned for. Or set as goals.
    Sorry, is that meant to be an excuse or just to emphasize how great your are? It's hard work for most people to be successful since they are not brilliant enough to get any admiring for free. But then again, it is not a good idea to drink wine and preach water. Nothing stops you from creating a new user account.
  • 37. Re: Forum credits and the one million dollar question.
    jgarry Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    Again I don't need or want your points. I care who is a top poster of a forum because these people are usually more familiar with questions that are typical in regard to a certain forum topic. As such these members eventually have a greater picture or experience with frequent questions than someone who is a newbie or an occasional poster. You may not find this valuable. I have no other way to obtain information about someones background.
    You might note that some top posters maintain that the point system ought to go.
  • 38. Re: Forum credits and the one million dollar question.
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    Maybe they are more intelligent and do not argue since it is apparently going to stay anyway. ;-)

    People have different opinions and that is a good sign. I think the discussion about pro and cons of the point system is fine as long as it does not drift into aspects of personal discrimination. If this forum requires that members worship a specific lifestyle, religion or ideology, then I have a problem.

    Perhaps some people have developed a certain ideology about the purpose of this forum and who should be allowed to participate and why. It's like the forum is the tabernacle and a certain group of good people, who share a common IT history, are called to protect the status quo. Well, for what it's worth, I was part of that history too.

    The most typical argument brought forward against the point system is the perceived infantile newcomer who sees the forum and its point system as an ego shooter and therefore feeding silly information to gain points. Arguing about this seems practically useless.

    Speaking of ego and the point system, I'm starting to wonder whose ego it really shoots? If the point system was installed to create a better balance between newcomers and a certain lobby of experts, or whoever things who runs the show, then it actually does a good job to address such issues.

    I think it is not necessary to discuss more details about this. I wish some people could reconsider their standpoints under the light of a global and changed IT environment, accepting different characters, opinions and skills.
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