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  • 30. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    No, I think you have a legitimate gripe in trying to provide quality postings and seeing that effort being undone with the migration.

     

    But I also can see the issues from a migration side and the complexities involved. It would have been easy if one can directly use SQL and fix stuff during a migration process. But J2EE architectures seldom (never in my experience) allow that because of how it treats the database (as a bit bucket). This forces you to touch data only via the J2EE interfaces provided - and this can severely constrain and limit the functionality, flexibility and power you would have had touching the data directly via SQL.

     

    That can be an extremely frustrating experience when dealing with something like J2EE (where even trying to fix data via SQL is undone by app server caching a copy of the data and not seeing your changes and overwriting it).

     

    So between the migration done and your problem with poorly migrated content. Two sides to the coin - and both have valid issues...

  • 31. Re: To all the whining wussies
    jgarry Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    BillyVerreynne wrote:

     

    791794 wrote:

     

    The forum software is a tool not a goal.

    Your point being? Surely you should be able to use the tool? And to use the tool you need to learn the tool.

     

    One point would be it is difficult to learn the tool as it is mutating in your hand.  Over the last hour I've seen the advanced editor mysteriously disappear and return.

     

    If your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.  If you are pounding a nail and the hammer turns into a scythe you might have no more babies (to refer to another obscure old joke about martial arts masters).

  • 32. Re: To all the whining wussies
    jschellSomeoneStoleMyAlias Expert
    Currently Being Moderated

    > BillyVerreynne

    > I do not come here to get more information about Oracle products

     

    Then you are in the vast minority - as the questions in the forums make clear.

     

    > Your point being? Surely you should be able to use the tool? And to use the tool you need to learn the tool.

     

    The forum is intended to support the products the Oracle sells.  The products ("tool") are what people come here to learn about and "use".  They do not come here to marvel in the look and feel of the forum software.  Because that isn't the "tool" that they need to make work.

     

    > There are those who are acting as professional wussies and professional idiots

     

    Can't speak to others.  But this site is now significantly harder to use to achieve professional goals.

  • 33. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Kunwar Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated

    Hi,

    I appreciate your views on defending the upgrade. What are your views on a concern which some of have like in this below thread. I am tired of scrolling down to the technical content . Any tricks that you can suggest here to disable the header?

     

    https://forums.oracle.com/thread/2550900

  • 34. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    You can easily suppress the OTN logon that takes up quite a bit of real estate space, using a Javascript plugin like Grease Monkey.

     

    Look for the following:

    <header id="j-header"><a class="j-header-logo" href="/community/developer/english"> ..

     

    Rewrite it to:

    <header id="j-header"><a class="j-header-logo" href="/community/developer/english" style="display:none"> ..

     

    You will loose the logos, the OTN username/logon button, and  the FAQ button. The header will now only contain the tab links.

     

    If you want to be more creative, rewrite as a collapsible/expandable region - with HTML5 it is easier I think as it is supported via tags and do not need Javascript.

     

    Or.. use a proper device (screen resolution) to view OTN. The vast majority of OTN users are using PC-based devices for access. Not tablets. Not smart phones. I'm pretty sure a mobile interface is on the roadmap for OTN. Which will be more sensible for Oracle to pursue than attempting to satisfy both PC-based and mobi-based access using the same web interface.

  • 35. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    I don't think modifying html on the fly is a feasible solution.

     

    However, the logo is not really the issue. The logo is certainly more visible than in the previous forum, which might lead to the perception of it being bigger, but when comparing the old and new interface, the space occupation of the forum headers are pretty much the same. What is a lot less efficient is the presentation of data content, which requires to do a lot more scrolling.

     

    There is already a thread where I have uploaded images comparing the interfaces. Header area takes half of the screen

  • 36. Re: To all the whining wussies
    jschellSomeoneStoleMyAlias Expert
    Currently Being Moderated


    > You can easily suppress the OTN logon that takes up quite a bit of real estate space, using a Javascript plugin like Grease Monkey.

     

    Or just write a custom browser "easily" to solve the other types of problems as well.

  • 37. Re: To all the whining wussies
    KonradZuse Explorer
    Currently Being Moderated

    I personally do not mind the upgrade, obviously I love the newer look and enhanced abilties; however like most said there are some things you need to adjust to.

     

    I do really like that we can PRIVATE MESSAGE now .

  • 38. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    KonradZuse wrote:

     

    I personally do not mind the upgrade, obviously I love the newer look and enhanced abilties; however like most said there are some things you need to adjust to.

     

    I do really like that we can PRIVATE MESSAGE now .

     

    What would you use private messaging for? I mean, why should any legitimate discussion be discussed outside the forum?

  • 39. Re: To all the whining wussies
    jgarry Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    Some legitimate discussions should be taken offline.  One example is some tangential discussion that only the two people care about.

     

    Where is the private messaging?

  • 40. Re: To all the whining wussies
    sonyabarry Guru Moderator
    Currently Being Moderated

    UAT was only possible behind the Oracle firewall, but we did have over 400 stakeholders invited to come in and test, plus our ops team and our SEO team took several whacks at it as well.  We had it open for several weeks total over the last few months. 

     

    FWIW, on the other site I manage (Java.net) we have opened things for public UAT for weeks and weeks and not had one single person log in to do it.  It seems to be one of those things that everybody thinks is a great idea but nobody quite has time to do themselves. 

  • 41. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    For someone who does generally not seem to be fond of the idea that the OTN forum might become a social network like Facebook or LinkedIn,  I'm surprised you like the idea of private messaging. I think it is not enabled. From what I understand, the OTN forum does not provide a media for people to advertise information for the purpose of business opportunities. If I'm not mistaken, it's according to the terms of use.

     

    I think the maximum personal contact this forum should allow is to make a users e-mail address visible in the account profile, as it was the case in the previous software, which is enough information to have a private conversation. I had my e-mail address available, but besides a few thank you messages, the majority of emails were just requests for free personal help, which I do not provide outside, beside, or otherwise through the OTN community. I think the forum management should emphasize that privately contacting people for technical help requests is inappropriate.

     

    I expect any technical discussion to be done in the forum for the purpose of everyone's benefit. I think private messaging just invites people to circumvent the community idea and use the forum as a platform to advertise their own services for the purpose of business opportunities. I don't make any rules here, but if Oracle enables private messaging, I suggest to also allow people to advertise their own services in post signatures, etc.

  • 42. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Hemant K Chitale Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    >FWIW, on the other site I manage (Java.net) we have opened things for public UAT for weeks and weeks and not had one single person log in to do it.  It seems to be one of those things that everybody thinks is a great idea but nobody quite has time to do themselves

     

    Sonya,

    I can only sympathise with you.   The world and the people of the world don't behave as we would like them to behave !

     

    (Yes, even us DBAs, SysAdmins, Developers can attest to business function systems implemented with users not caring about a UAT !)

     

    Hemant K Chitale

  • 43. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    I cannot imagine that any public UAT has ever worked or provided successful results. Most people have a desire for prestige and believe they are competent, but in reality do not recognize potential problems of a complex software design. You need participants with the right motivation and experience, including advanced usage and understanding of the purpose of the product in question.

  • 44. Re: To all the whining wussies
    jgarry Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    Did I say I like it?  I just gave an example where it would be legitimate.  I could come up with illegitimate examples, like people sending flaming emails, or setting up their own cabal (tinc), or even just generally laughing at someone behind their back.  Another legitimate example (that I use all the time for bloggers) is simply privately pointing out typo's or dumb careless errors.  In public that can seem churlish, in private it elicits a relieved "thank you."

     

    Personally, I'm several thousand emails behind, so I sometimes miss important things, including missives from admins here (so I laugh when I see someone like that say they sent an email).  I'm much more responsive to my work email, but someone really has to be part of my inner circle to get that - except, more recently spammers have gotten hold of it because some slimeball companies publish lists, and I surely don't respond positively to that, even when it is humorously off the mark.  (The MOS email for SR's goes to a distribution list, and I REALLY don't want email from here to get to that.)

     

    My viewpoint is also that technical discussion should be for everyone's benefit - but I also acknowledge that I'm more in favor of thread drift than most, as that often has the most benefit.

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