Well, OK, I falsely interpreted your arguing of legitimate and illegitimate reasons as a defense in favor of personal messaging. Personally, I don't mind private messaging and I don't want to spoil anyone's desire to use it. However, anything that happens in e-mail is outside the responsibility and jurisdiction of OTN, and it's up to the user to allow that, at least in the previous system; everything that happens in PM is not and has a potential of abusing the system.
Yeah, PM does have an abuse potential, how many otherwise experienced and bright techies fell for "I saw that video you were in" trojan on tw and fb. Insert stream of obscenities here.
I think the maximum personal contact this forum should allow is to make a users e-mail address visible in the account profile, as it was the case in the previous software, which is enough information to have a private conversation. I had my e-mail address available, but besides a few thank you messages, the majority of emails were just requests for free personal help, which I do not provide outside, beside, or otherwise through the OTN community. I think the forum management should emphasize that privately contacting people for technical help requests is inappropriate.
I expect any technical discussion to be done in the forum for the purpose of everyone's benefit. I think private messaging just invites people to circumvent the community idea and use the forum as a platform to advertise their own services for the purpose of business opportunities. I don't make any rules here, but if Oracle enables private messaging, I suggest to also allow people to advertise their own services in post signatures, etc.
No one is suggesting this become another facebook or linkedin(which it will NOT). I don't know why you would think that. Forums, in general, are much different from what they deem "social media." This is a place for Oracle product users to discuss things. No one is asking to advertise either.
The thing is why should I give someone my email, when we can keep everything closed off to this forum?
You asked why I would need to PM someone, and why any "legitimate" question couldn't be posed on the forums.
Let me give you an example that happened to me, which is why I was upset when there was no PM function.
I use JavaFX and am working with 8 now. I had posted a question where an awesome user was helping me, and we got stuck to which he posted some code and couldn't replicate it. when I made another post, with additional details I never got a reply. Even with a few bumps, nothing. It ended up being fixed in a later Java 8 build, so it was a bug, which I had thought. If I was able to pm that user he might have looked at it again, or he might have explained that he couldn't help me anymore, but he didn't post. How else could I DIRECTLY CONTACT HIM to ask him something?
I'm not looking for "free direct help" like you mentioned people ask you. I really do appreciate everyone's help, and I make sure to give back to the community when I can . I feel we are a community, and we should be there for each other, which most people here are.
there are small things that people might want to talk to, that is the point of private messaging. When you talk about "facebook" and that pming might make it more personal, does it really matter what someone else does on their free time? If I want to just chat it up all day about my last vacation why does it bother you? People wont flood in here though, it will just be us, the Oracle/Java heads .
(now, where is the quoting and advanced editor?)
> No one is suggesting this become another facebook or linkedin(which it will NOT). I don't know why you would think that. Forums, in general, are much different from what they deem "social media." This is a place for Oracle product users to discuss things. No one is asking to advertise either.
Actually, I have expressed that as a fear a number of times. People put things in the context they are used to. Now that fb and linkedin have become the mode, that is what a mass of people will demand. That is why Bill Gates is worth $100B, the Wintel infrastructure exists, enabling PC's to be a commodity and every kiddy with a PC to be a Computer Professional. That is why Zuckerberg is doing the same thing.
What I've been saying explicitly is that this kind of social media condones the opposite of what a technical forum should aspire to. I fervently hope I'm wrong. Any medium is the sum of its users, so can technical people overcome social mores in a social medium? We can but hope.
As far as the advertising, I can see where he is coming from, even going back years on usenet it was always a problem. My personal opinion is small sigs should be allowed, but I bow to group consensus, whatever it may turn out to be.
Well yes, everyone has the capabilities to flood any "site" but we are a niche, no one is going to flood us at all . I mean honestly out of all the millions of forums out there, are people really going to come to the Oracle forums to talk about things? That is what niche forums are for, we keep our niche, and the rest of them have their own . Facebook is filled with people with no time on their hands. We are people who are bettering ourselves. Sorry if I sounded harsh in my previous statement, but I would not worry at all.
I also wouldn't say that everyone with a computer is a "professional." Granted technology is available that people COULD(like us) become that way, but most don't.
I agree forums are different from "social media" which is what I said above. We cannot stop it. There are goods and bads to everything. We are different from them. Linkedin is actually a very nice site. There are tons of people who talk professionally on there, it's the "Big boy" facebook.
I figured he just meant people spamming our site, but yeah sigs can be an issue.
Everything will be okay, so don't worry . If we were going to be flooded with "outsiders" our awesome mod team will get rid of them in a jiffy .
My response was to someone I know does not want OTN to become another Facebook or LinkedIn, and it just surprised me that PM seemed acceptable, which has been cleared. PM alone does certainly not make Facebook.
Like I further wrote, I don't mind if people have PM. Whatever suits. However, anything that happens in e-mail is outside the responsibility and jurisdiction of OTN, and it's up to the user to allow that, at least in the previous system; everything that happens in PM is not and has a potential of abusing the system.
Regarding your example, if the person does not mind to be contact then ok, otherwise your attempt for direct help might be considered inappropriate. I guess I would prefer to turn PM off, but allow people to send me e-mails instead.
Regarding spam, the only reason why the forum is not flooded by spam is not because this is some "niche", which is far from it, or due to the technical content, but because there are forum moderators who do a hell of a job to keep this forum clean.
Message was edited by: Dude
I don't think modifying html on the fly is a feasible solution.
Oh it is. I would not surf without such features - modifying HTML on the fly. Such as using AdBlock.
Personal messages can only be sent to folks who are on your friend list.
As per documentation
As of Jive 5.0.1, you can require that users must be connected to send direct messages or shares to each other. In external communities, this helps to prevent spammers from spamming community users
Now we have brand new forum s/w. And instead of discovering what it can do, how it works, so-called technical experts are complaining because they do not want to learn and discover new s/w. They do not want to push boundaries of what modern technology can do to dated forum software and features of the 90's. They do not want push and pull the s/w to see what can be done, what is problematic, and provide constructive feedback.
I agree with you that the new software is more powerful and definitely overcomes the problems we were hitting with Jives. I'm not missing Jives at all.
However, in my personal opinion, there are few problems that need to be fixed.
I have posted few questions in this forum hoping that they will be taken as suggestions to improve the current platform.
this is also Jive. It's 5.05 instead of 1.1 (or something ancient like that).
I use ad blockers too, but that's out of context. However, to have the user modify the html code to omit the OTN forum header, which disables login and search and who knows what else, is not a feasible solution.
So if you want to send someone a PM, do you have to request "Friendship" first? I think the concept of being friends to enable PM defeats the purpose in the context of what has been discussed here and does not necessarily protect from spam. Instead it becomes just a social aspect, similar to Facebook.
If anyone wants PM, fine with me, I don't. I would prefer to allow others to see my E-mail address in my profile, so people can contact me outside the OTN forum if they wish. My mail filter will deal with the spam, let me worry about it !
Yeah, I was just notifying him that I edited the thread, and that he hopefully could come back to help me out, or else I wanted to make a JIRA report.
I really hope we do not see people promoting themselves via pm;'s as that would be very annoying, but I've never seen that personally.
I do understand the concerns .
On linkedin, not only do people promote themselves via pm's, that's considered a primary feature. For those trying to keep a technical perspective, it is indeed very annoying. Even more annoying is when you do want to use it and it doesn't work. (I had a person I used to work with contact me looking for a job, and I was interested in helping, but apparently made my reply too long, which appeared to take away my ability to reply to that message permanently. Jeez, and they reap $$$ for an IPO. And I thought bold Direct Message in tw dropdown would mean you have some unread, but I guess not.)
Well, yes, LinkedIn is deff filled with people spamming me with job opps, but there seems to be a lot of groups for "technical stuff" I don't use it a lot, and my main tech forum is obviously here with OTN, but what you said about replying is BS....
But yeah they are lookign for money now also it seems .
Oh wells, but we wont be linkedin, we are ORACLE!