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  • 105. Re: Update on site issues
    Paul M. Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    Everybody seems content, I'm the only malcontent here

     

    You're not the only one, of course.

     

    I've read your post by chance, because I'm not participating on these fora since several days, and probably I won't do it for some time in the future : unfortunately I've no time to lose with awfully slow and badly working fora, as some lucky people here seem to have....

  • 106. Re: Update on site issues
    jgarry Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    Jason_942375 wrote:

     

    ChristianErlinger wrote:

     

    Sorry Christian, your standards and expectations are for me too low.  How much money does Oracle have? They could throw a few boxes (CPUs, hardware) at the performance issue as a brute force temporary solution at the drop of a hat, whilst working on the underlying causes.

    Ah of course. Now if one woman can deliver one baby in 9 months, then most certainly 9 women must be able to deliver one baby in 1 month, right?

     

    Or do they consider that such a use of resources is just "not worth it"? In other words, we, the thousands of users of these forums, "are just not worth it".

    I don't know about you, but I am not paying to use the oracle forums. You are acting if forums.oracle.com is Oracles #1 business critical application and Oracle can't run a second without it. Let me assure you: it isn't. What's the stress all about? You do know there are other oracle related resources out there, if the Oracle Forums are responding slowly (or are sometimes down like we had some time ago) then I simply go somewhere else to find answers if needed. There is also the possibility to raise SRs with oracle support for critical problems you can't find solutions or nobody is able to help you or the forums are down. It is that simple.

     

    If the problems you try to solve with forums.oracle.com are not worth a SR with support then I suggest you do the same as I'll do now: the weather is nice today, so I'll grab some beer, get on my bike, ride to the swimming lake and take a sunbath with a good book, my MP3 player and some beer.

     

    cheers

     

    "Ah of course. Now if one woman can deliver one baby in 9 months, then most certainly 9 women must be able to deliver one baby in 1 month, right?"  You are implying an analogy between the gestation of babies and the performance of a forum.

    Really, do you expect me to swallow that?  That's a terrible analogy, and you must surely know it. It's not even an imperfect analogy. It's so imperfect it just doesn't make sense.

     

    It makes perfect sense if applied to what he obviously was referring to, your suggestion throwing hardware at the problems.  (gritting teeth, not making swallow joke)

     

    "I don't know about you, but I am not paying to use the oracle forums." Well, that's the nub of it, isn't it?  You imply that because it's not a paid-for service, it's acceptable for the forums to have substandard functionality, broken functionality, missing functionality, and poor performance, for this long after their rollout. IOW, Oracle doesn't directly make any money from it, and we pay personally nothing for it, therefore, it's okay if it takes months to fix all or even most of these issues.  What right do we have to complain, for surely, we pay nothing for these forums?

    What is a terribly old-school, myopic view, taking nothing into account but direct monetary transactional value. But fair enough, it's what you believe; we just see things differently.

     

    Well, the expectations for a commercial company are going to be different for their "free" service.  But even companies that make a business model of the free service create expectations.  Right now I'm much more pissed at Google for pushing a borked new Groups software on us, ignoring plenty of comments on it.  Most frustrating is they've broken their own search.  This forum upgrade, on the other hand, has at least given us some actual people responding and giving upgrade dates.  It appears to me what you are really upset about is not being able to declare your issue as a P1.  Having been on both sides of the support fence, I can tell you even with paid support, having people yell at support managers and upgrade SR severity doesn't get anything done faster most of the time, it just sets in motion customer handling processes.

     

    I think you can guarantee, if Larry Ellison or some other senior executive or even senior manager was using these forums, even to order their pizza, most of these issues would have been fixed by now.

     

    Yeah, but one thing you'll find is upper management considers themselves special.  They have drones for that.

     

    Everybody seems content, I'm the only malcontent here; sticking up for what he believes, which is that this is a fatally flawed delivery with likely very few resources behind it, and that the users of the forums/fora deserve better, and that Oracle could have and should have delivered better. I've worked in massive global companies before.  They make a fortune in profits, cut resources to the bone, and then wonder why projects don't go to plan.  Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose, n'est ce pas?

     

    I know I'm a squeaky wheel most of the time, but I'm convinced the people on the project are doing the best they can given the circumstances.  Would I have done it differently?  Certainly.  But I'm not doing it.  Vent if you must, but it's better all around if you just calmly explicate any issues.

     

    I may have missed it, so I'll ask the dumb question:  Have you tried clearing your cache?

     

    Still, enjoy your beer

  • 107. Re: Update on site issues
    SomeoneElse Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    > One could suppose however that this reflects poorly on their technical ability to solve problems.

     

    Keeping in mind that Oracle doesn't own this code.  It was purchased from Jive.

  • 108. Re: Update on site issues
    9423755 Explorer
    Currently Being Moderated

    Okay Billy, I see you are having a bit of reading comprehension trouble here, so let me assist you gently.

     

    My expectations:

     

    1. People should see threads in descending order of activity on the DEFAULT landing page.

    2. The word "activity" means, the timestamp of when a thread was last updated. 

    3. The phrase "default landing page" means, the page a forum user gets to when he/she clicks on "SQL and PL/SQL".

    4. Forum users should NOT be expected to click on "Content" in order to be able to see the latest content. (If you expect them to click on content, take them to the content page automatically, FGS.)

     

    [As an aside from this, I ask: What is the difference between the "content" page and the "activity" page? How are people supposed to know what the difference is? Why are people supposed to know? ]

     

    A logical consequence of this, is that I therefore expect:

     

    5. When someone posts a question (or "starts a new discussion" in the new vernacular), that is treated as "activity".

    6. I expect that "activity" to be visible in the DEFAULT landing page immediately. A thread has been updated. Could be by me, or whoever. It could be a new thread, or it could be a reply to an existing thread. Who cares. It should go to the top of the list of threads. This is how discussion forums work the world over. None of this is new. This is basic, straightforward stuff. 

     

    This isn't just for me. It's for everybody. It's common sense. But like they say, common sense is depressingly uncommon.

     

    You're a smart guy Billy.  I find it odd that you find this so difficult to understand. Perhaps, perchance, but not perforce, you're an insider, who is taking this criticism of the delivery of the new forum personally.  I have seen your rather barbed comments directed at others who have had the temerity to express on this thread less than complete satisfaction for the new forums.

  • 109. Re: Update on site issues
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    In order to understand how to keep track of updates one needs to understand the difference between Following and Tracking. Forum activity can be viewed in the Dashboard, where you can see all forum activity or filter it by the information you are Following.

     

    Anything you are tracking is showing up in the Communication page where you also have a read and unread marker. If you start or participate in a discussion you are tracking the discussion automatically.

     

    FWIW, I've put together a small guide trying to explain the concepts of Following and Tracking. If you or anyone is interested: https://forums.oracle.com/thread/2553916

     

    Apparently not everyone has the same level of perception, for whatever reason, or different standards about what is acceptable or not, but there is no point in arguing or denying that forum is broken. Performance and reliability are the number one issues, which may explain many of the problems. The forum editor has a mind of its own and the page designs need to be improved. The content and overview pages are not always in sync and hopefully Oracle is aware of it. A more frequent or regular update of information about current issues and progress would be helpful.

  • 110. Re: Update on site issues
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    Jason_942375 wrote:

     

    I find it odd that you find this so difficult to understand. Perhaps, perchance, but not perforce, you're an insider, who is taking this criticism of the delivery of the new forum personally.  I have seen your rather barbed comments directed at others who have had the temerity to express on this thread less than complete satisfaction for the new forums.

    I've worked in corporates for almost 30 years. I know when faced with the inevitable, that moaning and whining about it achieves exactly nothing. Except for festering negativity.

     

    Is the new OTN better than the old OTN? In some respects yes, in others not. And seeing that the old version has been pushed to its limits, and is no longer supported by the vendor, it is very clear as to why a move (painful as it may be) had to be made to new software by Oracle.

     

    So we can either whine and moan - and just make one another more negative. Or we can accept that this is it, this is the new OTN, and we need to fully explore and try new features, report broken stuff in the hope that now with actual vendor support these can be fixed, and make OTN ours again.

     

    What other alternative is there? Whine enough to make Oracle revert back to unsupported and failing s/w for OTN? That is as likely as common sense in a Republican lawmaker.

     

    Posting a bunch of angry emoticons and writing in a large angry red font, achieves nothing. How would you react to an angry response, versus constructive criticism? Why do you think the OTN staff would be any different in their reactions?

     

    So you can either stand on the sidelines and complain - or participate constructively in making the new OTN better than the old one.

  • 111. Re: Update on site issues
    Christian Erlinger Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    "Ah of course. Now if one woman can deliver one baby in 9 months, then most certainly 9 women must be able to deliver one baby in 1 month, right?"  You are implying an analogy between the gestation of babies and the performance of a forum.

    Really, do you expect me to swallow that?  That's a terrible analogy, and you must surely know it. It's not even an imperfect analogy. It's so imperfect it just doesn't make sense.

    Let me rephrase it then: if one Server can respond to a request in 9 seconds, then most certainly 9 servers must be able to deliver a request in 1 second. Is that a better analogy?

     

    "I don't know about you, but I am not paying to use the oracle forums." Well, that's the nub of it, isn't it?  You imply that because it's not a paid-for service, it's acceptable for the forums to have substandard functionality, broken functionality, missing functionality, and poor performance, for this long after their rollout.

    Maybe it's because I am not a power user of OTN, but before the update we had Forums and Threads where I responded to questions ranging from 1-5 posts a day. Now we have places (or spaces, can't tell how they are called) and threads where I respond to 1-5 questions a day. I navigate to the place I used to participate and respond to questions I like to. Right after the update the System kept logging me out (which I considered an annoying problem) but that was for a day or two. And as for now at least for me it isn't worse then it was before the upgrade. Sure, the editor is a bit annoying, and I'd much more like the plain/text editor back where I could use tags instead using the toolbar to insert code formatting etc., but honestly my blood pressure doesn't increase much because of that.

    Yesterday the performance was bad, today it seems much better which could be because they sussed it out, or because the cleaning staff is done hoovering and plugged the other 8 servers back in .

     

    cheers

  • 112. Re: Update on site issues
    EdStevens Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    Jason_942375 wrote:

     

    Okay Billy, I see you are having a bit of reading comprehension trouble here, so let me assist you gently.

     

    My expectations:

     

    1. People should see threads in descending order of activity on the DEFAULT landing page.


    Sometimes the solution is to be smarter than the software.  Most modern browsers have the ability to bookmark a specific web page.  I bookmark the "content" page of the various forums/spaces that I follow.  So my "landing" page is in exactly the format you seem to be describing.


    2. The word "activity" means, the timestamp of when a thread was last updated.

    3. The phrase "default landing page" means, the page a forum user gets to when he/she clicks on "SQL and PL/SQL".

    4. Forum users should NOT be expected to click on "Content" in order to be able to see the latest content. (If you expect them to click on content, take them to the content page automatically, FGS.)

     

    [As an aside from this, I ask: What is the difference between the "content" page and the "activity" page? How are people supposed to know what the difference is? Why are people supposed to know? ]

     

    A logical consequence of this, is that I therefore expect:

     

    5. When someone posts a question (or "starts a new discussion" in the new vernacular), that is treated as "activity".

    6. I expect that "activity" to be visible in the DEFAULT landing page immediately. A thread has been updated. Could be by me, or whoever. It could be a new thread, or it could be a reply to an existing thread. Who cares. It should go to the top of the list of threads. This is how discussion forums work the world over. None of this is new. This is basic, straightforward stuff.

     

    This isn't just for me. It's for everybody. It's common sense. But like they say, common sense is depressingly uncommon.

     

    You're a smart guy Billy.  I find it odd that you find this so difficult to understand. Perhaps, perchance, but not perforce, you're an insider, who is taking this criticism of the delivery of the new forum personally.  I have seen your rather barbed comments directed at others who have had the temerity to express on this thread less than complete satisfaction for the new forums.

  • 113. Re: Update on site issues
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    There are inevitable facts of life, but a piece of software is certainly not. You should know better. Shifting problems to personal character or perception will not stop the trouble. What you may anticipate or intent, to my experience, will rather have the opposite affect and trouble will continue.

     

    You will generally have to acknowledge anger and disappointment before constructive criticism and acceptance can follow. Posting big red letters to make room for anger or frustration, well.

  • 114. Re: Update on site issues
    BrianP Journeyer
    Currently Being Moderated

    BillyVerreynne wrote:


    I've worked in corporates for almost 30 years. I know when faced with the inevitable, that moaning and whining about it achieves exactly nothing. Except for festering negativity.

     

    Is the new OTN better than the old OTN? In some respects yes, in others not. And seeing that the old version has been pushed to its limits, and is no longer supported by the vendor, it is very clear as to why a move (painful as it may be) had to be made to new software by Oracle.

     

    So we can either whine and moan - and just make one another more negative. Or we can accept that this is it, this is the new OTN, and we need to fully explore and try new features, report broken stuff in the hope that now with actual vendor support these can be fixed, and make OTN ours again.

     

    What other alternative is there? Whine enough to make Oracle revert back to unsupported and failing s/w for OTN? That is as likely as common sense in a Republican lawmaker.

     

    Posting a bunch of angry emoticons and writing in a large angry red font, achieves nothing. How would you react to an angry response, versus constructive criticism? Why do you think the OTN staff would be any different in their reactions?

     

    So you can either stand on the sidelines and complain - or participate constructively in making the new OTN better than the old one.

    Chiding someone for whining and moaning and bringing in completely off-topic political snipes as you suggest, essentially, that people complaining should STFU?

     

    Keep it classy. 

  • 115. Re: Update on site issues
    KeithJamieson Expert
    Currently Being Moderated

    Interestingly I am only able to reply using Internet Explorer. Not able to use firefox

  • 116. Re: Update on site issues
    jgarry Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    BillyVerreynne wrote:

     

     

    What other alternative is there? Whine enough to make Oracle revert back to unsupported and failing s/w for OTN? That is as likely as common sense in a Republican lawmaker.

     

    Wish we could specify liking of specific parts of posts

  • 117. Re: Update on site issues
    scott.wesley Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    I think the key phrase there was "constructive criticism"

  • 118. Re: Update on site issues
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    When I, as  an interested observer of the USA's politics, can take a snide swipe at the Taliban Republican party, I find it exceedingly hard not to do so. Er.. as the sentence itself, proves.

     

    Sorry...

  • 119. Re: Update on site issues
    Marwim Expert
    Currently Being Moderated

    As an external observer ;-)

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