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  • 60. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    KonradZuse wrote:

     

    Well, yes, LinkedIn is deff filled with people spamming me with job opps ....

     

    Modesty is not exactly your middle name it seems.

     

    Perhaps people think you are Konrad Zuse:

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Zuse

  • 61. Re: To all the whining wussies
    KonradZuse Explorer
    Currently Being Moderated

    I'm not modest ? I guess I must work on that lacking trait of mine .

     

    Well, of course, I only invented the computer, I have many fans

  • 62. Re: To all the whining wussies
    scott.wesley Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    I agree with Billy. I like the improvements to the forum, and appreciate there are continuing hurdles to face.

     

    I haven't encountered any major showstoppers that stop me from using the forum, though there are a few things I'd rather different. That being said, there must be a zillion opinions that the forum/space team are trying to satisfy.

     

    Suck it up people and use the tool provided, as best your ability. Have the patience to empty your cup and refill it.

     

    My 5 cents.

  • 63. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    scott.wesley wrote:

     

    I agree with Billy. I like the improvements to the forum, and appreciate there are continuing hurdles to face.

     

    I haven't encountered any major showstoppers that stop me from using the forum, though there are a few things I'd rather different. That being said, there must be a zillion opinions that the forum/space team are trying to satisfy.

     

    Suck it up people and use the tool provided, as best your ability. Have the patience to empty your cup and refill it.

     

    My 5 cents.

     

     

    Not everyone is in a romantic relationship with Oracle and I cannot see any valid reason to downplay the current issues. From my understanding of an IT professional and business point of view, the forum update and migration so far has been pathetic and no reason to give anyone credit.

     

    The thread subject and last not least your comment is a punch into people's face and does not fix any problems or help anyone. If you are happy with the forum upgrade, good for you!

     

    Btw, I had to do this message 5 times because cutting and pasting and quoting screws things up and the editor has a mind of its own. I guess if the basics would work, that would be good enough for most people.

     

    Ignorance is bliss

  • 64. Re: To all the whining wussies
    scott.wesley Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    Not everyone is in a romantic relationship with Oracle and I cannot see any valid reason to downplay the current issues. From my understanding of an IT professional and business point of view, the forum update and migration so far has been pathetic and no reason to give anyone credit.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to complain when I'm not happy with something, but give some credit where it's due - there has been good progress. I don't agree the example you provided above is 'not acceptable'

    I must say today's the slowest I've seen it since it first launched, but it's still bearable. Sometimes I consider delays on par with the carrier pidgeon internet speeds we sometimes get - ie, part of the noise.

     

    Do we have other forum upgrades that went super smooth for comparison? Are Oracle truly below par when comparing apples to apples? Who should Oracle really be answering to for oracle forum capability, since it's a free service? How many resources should they be applying? Without intimate knowledge of how the project is being managed, I'm not sure it's fair to criticise.

    The thread subject and last not least your comment is a punch into people's face and does not fix any problems or help anyone. If you are happy with the forum upgrade, good for you!

    While I wouldn't have used that particular language in the subject wording, I think it's worth providing feedback across the range of experiences to counter the file drawer effect, and counter examples like this where people are blaming the upgrade for no responses on a sunday.

    Btw, I had to do this message 5 times because cutting and pasting and quoting screws things up and the editor has a mind of its own. I guess if the basics would work, that would be good enough for most people.

    Perhaps I'm not as frequent a contributor as yourself, but I haven't had near the difficulties you seem to face - are you using IE8?! ;-)

    Writing this post was quite easy.

    Ignorance is bliss

    Not ignorance - basics work for me. Not just good for me, but further feedback for the team - perhaps you are part of a 1%?

  • 65. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    There are, in my view, two ways to deal with change. Ignoring it is not an option.

     

    You can make it own you.

     

    You can own it.

     

    Should not be that difficult to comprehend... which is why I posted about the whining wussies. They are allowing the change to own them. Pawnage, as the haxor dudes would say.

     

    It should be the other way around. If one is prepare  grow cojones and face change instead of acting like a wuss...

     

    And no, who said that change is painless?

  • 66. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Mr Nitin-Oracle Explorer
    Currently Being Moderated

    Hi

     

    "I must say today's the slowest I've seen it since it first launched, but it's still bearable."


    Do you see an improvement today  - in the performance?

    I thought it improved for me

  • 67. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    Unfortunately the problem is not about accepting or dealing with changes.

     

    The new software introduced fundamentally different and new concepts and requires users to work in different ways. For some this is easy to realize, accepted and appreciated, but many if not most expect or will need some guidance. Realizing that many users here have a technical background and discussing technical issues, worrying about how to use the forum software is the last what people need.

     

    The software does not work as advertised or is broken and mutates as fixes are installed or new problems arise. It does not allow users to gain understanding of how the new software and new concepts work by experience. Unfortunately, previous ways to deal or handle information have been removed, which leaves users with no alternatives.

     

    Many problems could have been avoided by providing documentation. Making information available after the forum changed or waiting for the first wave of complains to pass by, is reckless and demonstrates lack of project management and last not least indicates a failed project. I don't know to what extend prior product testing was performed, but given the list of very obvious and easy to recognize shortcomings, prior product evaluation must have been performed unprofessionally or carelessly.

     

    Many, including myself, are disappointed about how the forum upgrade was performed and the result we see now. It does not help to insult people who are complaining or have troubles dealing with the new forum or to downplay the problems. The best practice is to acknowledge the issues and show understanding for the concerns, then to address and work out the solutions.

     

    In my opinion, your assertion of the current situation is not objective and perhaps driven by opportunism. As such however, your downplaying and shifting of issues to personal perception or whining just asks for further and continuing criticism of Oracle and the OTN management as people will see reason to defend their position.

  • 68. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    What is your reason for posting your complaint outside the OTN forum and providing a link? Regarding your comment about 1 % it leaves room for interpretation, however I consider 1 % gain better than 99 % loss. And, no, I'm not using IE8. I'm using FF20 and a Mac, but according to a previous discussion, the problem is not the platform or browser version. The editor certainly works as good as using SMS on my phone, no doubt.

  • 69. Re: To all the whining wussies
    jgarry Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    This requires a definition of failed project.

     

    When I took a uni course in the subject back in the '80s, the instructor gave a strict definition: on time, under budget, to specs.  Any of those not passed, failure by definition.  Now, he was a consultant to the aerospace industry, where that was a reasonable definition.  At the time, I was a hotshot designer/developer, with the newfangled relational databases and rapid application development paradigms, and I bridled at that definition - just as now someone developing agile social software might bridle at waterfall methodology not being cost appropriate for a situation.  However, I still took the classic view that the outputs should be designed first, only the methods used to get the software there were rapid (plus some iterative doc v. implementation specifics where necessary).

     

    So I agree, here there needed to be more jelling of the product and documentation before implementation.  It just looks like a "damn the torpedoes" implementation, so in that respect, yes, #fail.  But I think there needs to be a longer view before judging success or failure for this kind of project.  The metric is how popular it is over time.  Feature implementation by customer feedback is a good thing.  Saying "use the tools they give you and don't whine," not so much, just as with any GUI, that is patronizing in assuming the tool is the best of all possible tools.

     

    Of course, if the metric is "how good of a technical resource," there might be a different judgement.

     

    As to a longer evaluation on a blog, that's probably a good thing too.  Blogs by nature work against the give-and-take that is a strength of fora, but do encourage a longer, more thoughtful post (well, assuming it's not a marketing "post something every day" blog).  Later we can all go back and laugh about the snapshot in time.

  • 70. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    What is your message? That the forum upgrade and data migration was actually a success and human resilience, adaptation and creativity over time will eventually show the true potential and usefulness of the forum software in the future? Sure, no doubt.

     

    However, I don't need to know the project specs to realize that the forum upgrade was not successful and a failure. Problems are to be expected, but not a loss of basic functions or the complete loss of usability and destruction of previous content. Under which circumstances and low expectations can you call this success?

     

    So anyone complaining and not happy with the situation is stupid and whining and only the people who accept the change and thank Oracle for the new wonderful forum are the wise guys?! I call the later just brown-nosing. Give me a break!

     

    I think it is time to accept and research the issues and inform about the troubles so Oracle can implement corrective actions. On the other hand, I can only speak for myself and certainly have no intention to name and shame anybody. I'm starting to get bored here.

  • 71. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Greg.Spall Expert
    Currently Being Moderated

    Dude wrote:

    . Under which circumstances and low expectations can you call this success?

     

    Easy answer ... "Small"soft!

  • 72. Re: To all the whining wussies
    jgarry Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    I didn't say it was a success.  I was merely pointing out the context partly determines the judgement, and it's really too early to come to a final conclusion.  I surely agree that things look bad now (and in fact "liked" some of your posts FWIW).  I don't expect the previous content is completely destroyed, let's hope they at some point fix it.  (I actually have a similar issue in an upgrade I just did, the questionable content wasn't on the critical path and can be fixed after the critical part is done.  Sometimes these things are judgement calls, especially in multi-pass data upgrades, most especially trying to clean up user entered variability to normalized standards.)

  • 73. Re: To all the whining wussies
    scott.wesley Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    Blogging encompasses a different community of people (some overlapping).

    Helps get word of the forum, encourages interaction, and for the points jgarry mentions.

     

     

     

    I meant people having issues/perspectives such as yourself might represent 1% of people. Ergo, file draw effect.

     

     

     

    Your point regarding documentation is a good one, this provides a good metric to measure how the upgrade went, and would be a vital resource to learn out to use the new environment, and for finding bugs.

    I'd count that as a failure on their part.

     

     

     

    Although I think some changes have been made overnight, I've got a wad of notification emails and performance is better.

  • 74. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    Dude wrote:

     

    The software does not work as advertised... snipped

     

    Interesting statement to make. Advertised exactly where? With what specific features? That are now not working?

     

    As I said before, the mere fact that this thread has had over a 1000 views, means that reading threads are not a problem and does work. The fact that it has been responded to, with responses covering 5 pages, means that that part (editing and replying) is also working.

     

    Seeing it elicit the comments that it did, means that using new OTN for communicating ideas, problems, opinions, views and what not, is also working.

     

    So just what and where is this "total failure" that is resulting in OTN be "unusable"? And yes, this is the impression being created by the whining wussies.

     

    Do I like the new OTN look? Not specifically. Prefer minimalistic designs. There are a number of changes and features I do not particularly like. And yes, I have run into a number of bugs like session resets. But were the old OTN forums perfect? I recall spending over 10 minutes on a single posting a number of times, that OTN refused to accept as it contained a spam word. I still used old OTN despite of such problems. As I am using current OTN with its problems - that unlike old OTN, are problems with a far better chance of being addressed meaningfully.

     

    So I am not blind to the issues that exist. But I do have an issue with the vitriolic criticism and demands.. when OTN is a free service. From which a person can simply walk away if it is really as sh*tty as it is being made out to be. It begs the question: What are those who are so bitterly complaining about OTN as a total and epic failure still doing here?

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