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  • 75. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    If according to your opinion, my point of view represents 1 % of people, then you must be the other 99 %, or perhaps trying to reach them.

     

    The file drawer effect is an aspect of publication bias. I guess too bad that your blog does not show any posted comments and OTN is not the NY Times.

  • 76. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    Success does not need to be defined or advertised to recognize failure.

     

    So you are suggesting that all the issues people are experiencing with the forum upgrade is simply a question of mindset and imagination? And since there have been problems in the past, and because the service is free, we should lower our expectations and need to accept things as they are?

     

    You wrote that you do not like the new look of the OTN forum and have run into a few bugs yourself. But everyone else who is complaining is just whining?

     

    You are quoting or adding expressions to the discussion like "total failure", "vitriolic criticism", "bitterly complaining", etc. Where are you pulling this from?

     

    Let's be clear about this discussion. I did certainly not start this thread, and I don't think I said anywhere that problems cannot be fixed. If the software and forum upgrade would have worked as advertised or anticipated, we would most likely not have this discussion.

     

    I responded to your thread, because I find the polemic argumentation not helpful, and certainly reject the attempt to make the defects of a technical product a personal issue.

  • 77. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    There is valid and constructive criticism.

     

    Then there is whining about how bad things are, how much better it was, or should be, how a company like Oracle is a letdown , and then a lot me-too's that are posted. (kind of like me too!)

     

    Criticism can either focus on how the problem can be addressed/mitigated/solved. Or focus on just how bad the problem is, and the suffering that poor me is subjected to as a result.

     

    I have seen some of the former. I have seen a lot of the latter.

     

    My comments are addressed to the latter group.

  • 78. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    That's fine and dandy, but your thread appeared a couple of days after the forum upgrade, and I have not been sensing any of the issues you are complaining about. Despite that I have been following all discussions and updates as much as I was allowed to.

     

    Are you stigmatized from the previous forum upgrade and whining in advance about the whiners?

     

    Making a forum post that has a potential to insult others, and probably generates thousands of views and likes, does not match the forum personality you are demanding from others, not according to several previous forum discussions.

     

    Dealing with IT and expert opinions is not a business for the faint of heart. I'm sure Oracle can handle the criticism, which is certainly harsh and unfair at times. I don't think Oracle needs any bodyguards who rush into the shooting lines.

     

    People are not machines and deserve respect and understanding in advance, which this thread has not been emphasizing in my opinion.

  • 79. Re: To all the whining wussies
    jgarry Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    (dang, quoting and advanced editor go byebye again)

     

    > From which a person can simply walk away if it is really as sh*tty as it is being made out to be. It begs the question: What are those who are so bitterly complaining about OTN as a total and epic failure still doing here?


    Which begs the further question, where are they going to go?  The old days had an advantage, there weren't all that many choices.  Nowadays people can flit around various places, while not being able to find where the critical mass of experts has gone.  Usenet cdo.*?  Not quite dead, but smells funny.  Oracle-L?  Still good, still a cabal.  Blogs?  How many lists of oracle blogs have you seen that are actually up to date?  How many oracle.com domain blogs have real freedom of technical opinion?  Other BBS's?  Variable quality at best, fiefdoms or just plain bad advice at worst.   MOS?  Paywall.


    This site has one thing other sites don't: forums.oracle.com.  That's a valuable brand, whether or not bean-counters can properly cost goodwill.

  • 80. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    (dang, quoting and advanced editor go byebye again)

     

    Quoting is working for me if I copy and paste the text, then select the text with the mouse and hit the quote button. If you need to add normal text before the quote you move the cursor to the first line of the quoted text and hit the up arrow key twice.

     

    If you do several copy and paste operations, the editor eventually messes up to and you may have to copy the text you have so far and cancel your session. It happens to me every time.

     

    The advanced editor is not working reliably. Trying to add and edit posts with code is a really bad. Unfortunately, if you don't use Syntax Highlighting, it wraps the text. Syntax Highlighting uses a proportional font and adds line numbers, removes blank lines, which can be annoying. Editing code after it has been posted is nearly impossible since the input mask does not match the lines of written text in the code field.

  • 81. Re: To all the whining wussies
    jgarry Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    I was replying from the communications screen, which I see now does not have the quote button or Use advanced editor, whereas going to the thread and replying does.  Don't know if that is bug or misfeature.

  • 82. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    I find replying from the communications screen fairly useless. It also removes paragraphs when I paste text into it.  And I don't have a 50 inch screen to get a reasonable editor window. It might be ok for saying thanks though, but why bother. The editor has generally a design flaw with the detection of paragraphs and empty lines. Maybe it would work better if blank line suppressing was off. The editor seems to add a special paragraph marker, which ends up in an extra line when copying text from the editor and is unpredictable when copying text into. Also the font looks very small on a high-resolution screen. I have to squint my eyes or use magnifying glasses for reasonable editing. The editor looks nice and promising but is cr@p because it does not work, but some, who have only used SMS on a phone before might find it great. I generally find my way around the issues and it's not a show stopper for me, but I'm surprised how such an editor can make it into a production system.

  • 83. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Nicolas.Gasparotto Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    Joel,

    There's OraFAQ Forum: Welcome to the forum which is rather a good one.

    And if you are not limited to the English forums, there're fairly other good forums with working interface (editor).

    => for French, there's Oracle - Forum du club des développeurs et IT Pro

    => for Russian http://www.sql.ru/forum/oracle

    and I'm sure, many other language specific. Obvisouly audience is more limited, but those are quite good.

     

    Nicolas.

     

    PS: one more thing, copy and paste a link is just wrong, once url is paste, the cursor goes to the front of the url... no idea why. This should be a very simple task though.

  • 84. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    NicolasGasparotto wrote:

     

    one more thing, copy and paste a link is just wrong, once url is paste, the cursor goes to the front of the url... no idea why.

     

    I think it is to allow you replace the text description of the URL (which is by default the same as the URL), easily.

     

    E.g. I paste https://www.google.co.za/, and with the cursor now in front I simply type the description of that URL, e.g Google

  • 85. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    I was testing how URL handling works. Here is my result, using FF20.

     

    I copy an URL from another browser window and past it into the editor window. It pasted a blue link, showing the page title. Ok, nice.

     

    I copy another URL, not from an oracle site, it pastes the link and does not resolve the page title. Is that a setup? Does this mean page title resolving only works for Oracle sites?

     

    I copy and paste a URL from a Word document. The editor does not show it as a link, just plain text. When posting it turns into a link though. That's odd.

     

    I type an URL in the editor window. It does not change it into link.  I select the URL and click the A (link) button. It brings up a web address dialog. I enter the URL and it turns into a blue link. So this means in order to enter a link by typing a link, I have to use the A button to insert a link? (which also move the cursor to the end of the link).

     

    I paste the link from another discussion thread. It resolves the page title and shows a blue link. I click the "speech bubble" showing in the front of the link, it shows an A button and I select unlink. It shows the page title. How can I make it showing the link and not the page title? Sometimes the page title is misleading.

     

    I think the way how the editor handles links needs some explanation or improvements.

  • 86. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    jgarry wrote:

     

    Which begs the further question, where are they going to go?

    Somewhere else where it is fun and does not hurt? Oh, I forgot.. part of the fun is whining about how much it hurts. And revel in shared misery...

     

    The old days had an advantage, there weren't all that many choices.  Nowadays people can flit around various places, while not being able to find where the critical mass of experts has gone.  Usenet cdo.*?  Not quite dead, but smells funny.  Oracle-L?  Still good, still a cabal.  Blogs?  How many lists of oracle blogs have you seen that are actually up to date?  How many oracle.com domain blogs have real freedom of technical opinion?  Other BBS's?  Variable quality at best, fiefdoms or just plain bad advice at worst.   MOS?  Paywall.


    This site has one thing other sites don't: forums.oracle.com.  That's a valuable brand, whether or not bean-counters can properly cost goodwill.

    Well put. Which means this place ain't as sh*tty as some makes out.


    Sure, it is not perfect. It is different than before. But the real world say this is the face of OTN for at least the next few years, if not more. And trying to kick reality in the nuts (as some have by whining about Oracle as a company, about OTN staff, about alleged "upgrade/migrate promises", etc), is just plain foolish. And achieves nothing (but me getting on my old soapbox and calling them wussies).

     

     



  • 87. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    I hope that one of the primary goals of the forum upgrade was to improve the OTN community experience and make it worthwhile for most users.

     

    Calling people who are not happy or familiar with the new forum software whining wussies does not help to bring people on board and the opposite of gaining or improving acceptance.

  • 88. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    I've always called a spade, a shovel. Especially when it is used to feed the fan.

  • 89. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    I think there is no need to feed the fan or hit people on the heads. The reason for all the trouble is clearly the forum software, implementation design and lack of data migration, and not the users.

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