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  • 90. Re: To all the whining wussies
    PhHein Guru Moderator
    Currently Being Moderated

    And analysing the reasons and discussing them won't help anyone. The only constructive thing to do now, is to report every singe bug we find and being patient until the OTN team have found a solution.

    This is my last post on that topic.

    Regards, Phil

  • 91. Re: To all the whining wussies
    gimbal2 Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    My my, such a mature subject title. Well done.

  • 92. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BluShadow Guru Moderator
    Currently Being Moderated

    I read it as a lighthearted subject title myself.  I guess it's a matter of personal perspective.

    And bearing in mind, at the time the discussion was initially posted, there were a lot of people complaining about everything wrong, and not commenting much on everything that was better, then it could certainly be considered that there was a lot of whining going on. 

  • 93. Re: To all the whining wussies
    gimbal2 Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    I'm not going to argue with that. What makes it childish beyond belief is the use of the word wussies. I mean if you want to use such terminology in the body of the post, fine. I wouldn't just to keep the people with overly sensitive feelings from further whining about morals and values, but its a free world.

     

    Yet by using such terminology in the subject of the post you slam it in the face of potentially every single person visiting this site - long story short... that's quite unfriendly.

  • 94. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Greg.Spall Expert
    Currently Being Moderated

    Dude wrote:

    The reason for all the trouble is clearly the forum software, implementation design and lack of data migration, and not the users.

    I'm not entirely in agreement with that statement.

     

    People don't like change - simple fact of nature. Change is "scary", change means "more work - learning something new". Change means "something I'm not familiar with, so I don't feel as smart any more".  We've all been there at some time

     

    So yeah, there were problems with the forum upgrade.

    So yeah, there were problems with some of the users.

     

    Which do you want to discuss first

     

    [edit]

    fixed spelling error - "Please don't like change?" what the heck was I typing? )

    [/edit]

  • 95. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    gimbal2 wrote:

     

    Yet by using such terminology in the subject of the post you slam it in the face of potentially every single person visiting this site - long story short... that's quite unfriendly.

     

    Two issues.

     

    Firstly, you are implying that every potential single person visiting OTN is a whining wuss as such a person will naturally assume that it is specifically addressed at him or her.  Why would a person, reading this forum, automatically assume that whining wuss is addressed at him or her?

     

    That is a rather dim view to take of 99% of all OTN posters, when I'm calling 1% (less?) of OTN posters whining wussies.

     

    Secondly. Marketing. You want to raise an issue that gets a wide audience, you craft it in such a wide to attract the audience. I wanted to raise the point that the new forum is not the dismal failure as some made it out to be. And that as mostly technical people (the "natural" OTN audience), we should be more analytical and logical when dealing with new and different technology.

     

    The fact that this thread has the number of views it has, shows that the marketing approach worked - and that the other side of the coin got some view time too. (versus the almost 3500 views of the https://forums.oracle.com/thread/2549993 that mostly are complaints, with many of those being non-constructive whinging in my view).

  • 96. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    The opening statement of this thread does not mention that it addresses only a certain 1 % of users, which even puts this thread ad absurdum. Why even speaking of it?! Instead it leaves the impression that many people are unreasonable.

     

     

    Pretty much everyone had high hopes and was looking forward to the forum upgrade. The outcome has obviously disappointed many people and seems mostly concern those who have been contributing to the forum community for a long time.

     

     

    Where are those complains that are simply due to fear of change or unwillingness to understand the new forum software? Where are those posts of people who make vitriolic criticism and bitterly complain as this thread mentioned?

     

     

    All I see are complains and trouble, and repeated complains of people, that obviously boil down to a software bug, unfortunate design or unsuccessful data migration. Some of these issues are so obvious that it simply invites certain criticism and questions about OTN management or the forum software. And several complains are certainly due to the lack of information about changes and new forum strategies.

     

     

    I agree that finger-pointing does not solve the problems, but neither does denying or downplaying the issues or the attempt to discourage people to express their opinion. As such I find this thread fairly entertaining and educating since it shows the various levels of perceptions, biased opinions and last not least polemic argumentation. Myself included.

  • 97. Re: To all the whining wussies
    jgarry Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    Something is better?  What might that be?

  • 98. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Greg.Spall Expert
    Currently Being Moderated

    Dude wrote:

     

    The opening statement of this thread does not mention that it addresses only a certain 1 % of users,

    Don't think I mentioned 1% - think that came from somebody else - but semantics either way.

     

    Dude wrote:

     

      Pretty much everyone had high hopes and was looking forward to the forum upgrade.

    Well there's your problem!!

    Yeah, any time something gets "hyped up" any amount, it's always a setup for apparent (or potential) "failure".

     

    Dude wrote:

     

    Where are those complains that are simply due to fear of change or unwillingness to understand the new forum software? Where are those posts of people who make vitriolic criticism and bitterly complain as this thread mentioned?

    Probably still trying to fight with the new interface and unable to post

     

    Dude wrote:

     

    All I see are complains and trouble, and repeated complains of people, that obviously boil down to a software bug, unfortunate design or unsuccessful data migration.

    Again, this is where I am tempted to disagree.

    Complaints? Yep.

    Trouble? Yep.

    Repeated complains of people. Yep.

    Obviously boil down to a software bug.  Nope. Change "Obviously" to "appears to", and sure, I might agree. But stating something is "Clearly" or "obvious" in a situation as this is tricky at best (what is Obvious? Obvious to you isn't obvious to me). Just look at our FAQ on posting a question: "Hey, it's obvious to me what my requirements are, why can't you answer my question with what little information I posted?".  *shrug*. Don't get me wrong, they had problems with the upgrade, agreed, I suffered, agreed. I believe a lot of it could of (should of??) been avoided by taking appropriate counter measures (ie proper (?) testing ?). But hey, what's done is done.

     

    Some of us Rant to vent off steam or express ourselves. Ok

    Some of us Complain to vent off steam or express ourselves. Ok.

    Some of us laugh it off and poke fun at the first two groups. Very Ok

     

    Dude wrote:

     

    Some of these issues are so obvious that it simply invites certain criticism and questions about OTN management or the forum software. And several complains are certainly due to the lack of information about changes and new forum strategies.

    I Agree, 100%.

    (even with the word "obvious" in there )

     

    Dude wrote:

     

    I agree that finger-pointing does not solve the problems, but neither does denying or downplaying the issues or the attempt to discourage people to express their opinion. As such I find this thread fairly entertaining and educating since it shows the various levels of perceptions, biased opinions and last not least polemic argumentation. Myself included.

    Again, I agree with you on this 100%.

  • 99. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BluShadow Guru Moderator
    Currently Being Moderated

    jgarry wrote:

     

    Something is better?  What might that be?

     

    Searching is better.

    Formatting options are better (though somewhat glitchy at the minute, so hopefully will be fixed) i.e. it's easier to just highlight text and make it bold or italics, or colour it.

    For moderators, certainly moving dicussions to other forums is easier, as well as dealing with reported abuse.

    Notifications of changes to discussions you've taken part in etc. via the "Communications" is better (don't need to receive emails about them)

    Following of people who you're interested in (your 'friends') is a good new feature.

  • 100. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    The single best feature IMO is the Communications tab - non existent in the post 2008 Jives upgrade, and a definitive improvement over the watches page we had prior to that.

     

    I also like not having to type and preview, type and preview. Took some time to get use to the new editors. But despite some quirks that need to be fixed, I now spend less time on posting as it is WYSIWYG and no previewing needed.

     

    My single biggest dislike. I could keep track of posts I viewed by URL colouring - browser displayed clicked-before-URLs in a different colour than never-before-clicked-URLs. So I had an easy visual cue as to what posts I have read and have not read.

  • 101. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BluShadow Guru Moderator
    Currently Being Moderated

    Well... the editor is almost WYSIWYG... maybe when they get around to fixing it properly... but it's certainly an improvement on the old one.

  • 102. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    The most irritating feature is syntax highlighting not using fixed fonts, and skipping lines with spaces.

     

    The other quirks I can live with.

     

    And I'm still waiting for the heavens and skies to drop onto us - which is what the whining wussies seem to imply is happening/going to happen here...

     

    Dammit, I do not like wearing a blue hat..

  • 103. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    Sorry, if I cannot share your enthusiasm about the editor, except for one reason, which however defeats its purpose:  It allows to paste html code. Unfortunately, the editor has a lot of bugs and issues, and I find more the more I use it.

     

    The editor seems to do complex processing and analyzing of the content you type or paste into its window - probably more than is visible or you may have noticed so far. For instance copy and paste the word #test, or try to create code content without using Syntax Highlighting; having line numbers is not always appropriate, for example, when demonstrating terminal commands. Some of the issues using cut and paste and handling of paragraphs vs. empty lines depend on automatic reformatting, which is built-in and can take up to several minutes before the results are visible.

     

    I had a number of occasions where re-editing a post is impossible, because content shown in the editor window is different from what is posted. In some occasions the editor was not showing all the the text or produced unpredictable results, which forced me to cancel and start from scratch again. What makes it even more complex is that the editor produces different results among different browsers and versions.

     

    The editor is a b*tch, because it shows you all the options, but when using them or doing some more extensive editing, the results are unpredictable. I'm not even able to describe many of the issues since they are so goofed up and difficult to explain. For instance, when you edit a post that uses Syntax Highlighting, then the input mask does not properly overlay the lines of text in the code field and hence editing is nearly impossible.

     

    The editor is cool for basic typing and formatting of text, which might apply to most people, but quickly becomes a nightmare when actually trying to use any of the more sophisticated options it provides. The editor in its current incarnation is not suitable for creating technical and code based content.

     

    Until the more serious issues are fixed, using an external editor and pasting html code is the only feasible alternative for me. We can talk about he issues in more detail, but I guess not in this thread. I also don't want be perceived as a whining wussie - well, not that I really care.

     

    P.S. There is no fool like an old fool.

  • 104. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    I don't use the editor for any really complex formatting - so have not run into the more complex issues you have raised.

     

    But editors itself is not that easy to write in Javascript, supporting a number of browsers and (ab)users. Back in university one of my lecturers, doctorate in comp science, was Lisp crazy. And boy did he love to show me how to put an editor in Lisp together in 30 minutes. Not that I grasp a lot of what he did in that code...

     

    One thing I learned in my years of maintaining other's code - the most complex and perplexing code to maintain is guaranteed to be written by a scientist...

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