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  • 105. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    … you mean who pretend to be a scientist !?

     

    A robust and compatible editor sure is not easy. However, Oracle is the one who benefits the most from the OTN forum, at least in a business sense. The least Oracle should provide in my opinion is a piece of tested and working forum software. Maybe Oracle cannot or does not really care. I'm starting to wonder whether the later is the sad truth. It's not really encouraging to continue using the forum. Makes me feel like a fool.

  • 106. Re: To all the whining wussies
    PhHein Guru Moderator
    Currently Being Moderated

    The next/first bugfix release is announced for later this week. Do you expect the forum to fix itself automagically?

  • 107. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    No. Actual scientists. Used to work with geophysicists and other scientists and professionals (like surveyors) on GIS systems in the 80's. Dreaded having to maintain their Fortran and Cobol code.

  • 108. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    I'm not sure about the context or reason of your last response, but I can asure you that I have been an IT pro for many years and fully understand the effort it takes to fix and analyse problems. That's not the issue here or what I was trying to explain with my last response.

     

    Do I have to tell OTN administration what is wrong with the forum software so that I can use it? Do I like to be abused?

  • 109. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    I'm not a geophysicist, but I assume they are likely out of their element when creating computer programing code. I hope the forum editor was not coded by a geophysicist, but it might explain the result.

     

    I was assuming you meant code that has been over-engineered to a point where it becomes impossible to troubleshoot, which I do not consider an art of science, though the creator may consider themselves scientists.

  • 110. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Mr Nitin-Oracle Explorer
    Currently Being Moderated

    From my experience with other forums (using Jive), this is an issue and Jive has an open bug for the same.

  • 111. Re: To all the whining wussies
    jschellSomeoneStoleMyAlias Expert
    Currently Being Moderated

    And that as mostly technical people (the "natural" OTN audience), we should be more analytical and logical when dealing with new and different technology.

     

    Except of course that ignores the fact that the point of this site is deal with Oracle products, old and new.  And not new site software.

     

    The analytic and logic part comes about when people explain specifically and in detail what they don't like.  Or even more analytic and logical when then point out features that don't work as well as pointing out that standard industry processes that should insure that features do work before pushing it to production. Which I suspect most if not all of the posts have done.

     

    Exactly how is that not analytical and logical?

     

    Versus, for example, posts that just say "I like it!".  Would you claim that those are analytical and logical?

  • 112. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    The issue was people targeting OTN staff and Oracle with their comments - and not being analytical, or realistic, about the new forum s/w after a massive migration done over a weekend.

     

    There is a huge difference between analytical logic and emotional logic.

  • 113. Re: To all the whining wussies
    scott.wesley Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    "I like it" reduces negativity bias (possibly more exact term I was looking for earlier), gives the team useful feedback on what is/isn't a problem.

     

     

    Is 'feature x' working ok because

    a) nobody's bothered to report

    b) people have said 'I like it'

     

     

    Is 'feature x' not working because

    a) one person who has disruptive browser plugin reports problem

    b) people have said 'I like it', wait, that might mean the reported problem is localised

    c) multiple instances of problem reported, let's look into it

    d) one personally doesn't like the feature behaviour, so they'll report it - but it still works

    e) everything else has gone up sh~t creek, so might as well bundle the whole thing as broken

  • 114. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    BillyVerreynne wrote:

     

    The issue was people targeting OTN staff and Oracle with their comments - and not being analytical, or realistic, about the new forum s/w after a massive migration done over a weekend.

     

    There is a huge difference between analytical logic and emotional logic.

     

    And there is also a big difference with people's understanding of technical issues, perception, expectation and motivation.

     

    A statement like "Thank you very much for the upgrade. The software looks very nice, but aspect A could be improved…", in my opinion pretends to be a software review, possibly trying to mitigate in favor of Oracle. It is a statement made for strategic reasons.

     

    If Oracle was a one of the biggest car manufacturer and releases a new car where the airbag is missing and the breaks cannot be reached, then saying "Have you not tested the car?!" is a natural and immediate response. It might be an emotional statement due to disappointment or surprise, but it is honest.

  • 115. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    A non-working brake in a car can kill you. A non working feature in OTN forums, will not. So no, I fail to see why a response to a problematic feature on OTN need to be accompanied by emotional logic and criticism.

     

    As for reviews.. Never proposed such an approach.

     

    What I did propose, and actually did, is filing a brief detailed and accurate bug report. Feature abc shows errors 123 when doing xyz.

     

    But is seems like wussies cannot file a bug report without getting all indignant about the error, and questioning Oracle and OTN staff's competence.

  • 116. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BrianP Journeyer
    Currently Being Moderated

    Billy, it's hard to take seriously arguments against emotional logic and criticism coupled with repeated ad hominem "wussies" comments.

  • 117. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    Unfortunately it seems most people prefer simplistic black or white views and have fun throwing tomatoes at each other in order to resolve disputes, rather than trying to understand the conflict reasons and gaining social competence. I'm fully aware that Oracle does not manufacture cars, but neither is OTN a school of martial art style as described in your discussion opening. Let's not get ridiculous.

     

    Calling anyone a whining wuss or sissy in regard to interacting with the forum software or upgrade has the disposition of looking down on others, which in my opinion is not a reasonable approach. People should express their opinions without fear of being categorized by a valued and respected member with a badge.

     

    As it was already mentioned by several others, people do not come here to analyze the new forum software and create bug reports. Most people probably do not even feel they have to take a position in favor of Oracle in one way or another and throwing themselves into the shooting line.

     

    I think to question the competence of whoever performed the forum upgrade in light of the results is a legitimate question. Whatever was the reason, also considering the history of events prior to the upgrade, project planning and implementation is apparently not what many IT professionals would consider state of the art or expected from a software giant like Oracle.

     

    Personally, I wonder whether or not Oracle gave the forum software just a make-up, testing some of the new features, but perhaps trusting the software vendor too much. Or, perhaps thinking that it cannot be done right for everyone without giving it too much thought. Whatever, there are apparently a lot of issues that need to be resolved.

  • 118. Re: To all the whining wussies
    jgarry Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    The emotion comes because people care about their livelihoods.  Don't mess with someone's livelihood.

     

    I've praised the people doing this for giving us some communication, the amount of complaining is some gross measure of how much more PR and informative updating could be done.  But like political scandals, one reasonable response is to duck and cover, do the actual work that needs to get done, and wait for most of the talk to blow over.  I'm sure most of the problem is simple lack of resources.  I know I'm happy when my boss protects me from user idiocy so I can fix the code to protect them from themselves.

     

    Seeing the airbag example, I couldn't help but think of the recent recall - software bug, so the wrong airbag would go off in a crash.  Software people predictably asked "how they did not catch this on QA?"  BBC News - Chrysler to recall 840,000 vehicles

  • 119. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    BillyVerreynne wrote:

     

    What I did propose, and actually did, is filing a brief detailed and accurate bug report. Feature abc shows errors 123 when doing xyz.

     

    I forgot to ask: How did you file a bug report? I did not see any bug database or related announcement. Posting suggestions or bugs in this forum does not seem to receive much attention from people in charge or in the decision making process, at least as far as I can tell.

     

    I would not mind to have a look what bugs you or other people have reported. Perhaps I can add a few things to it.

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