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  • 120. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    If I did not use "wussies", would my comments that the OTN upgrade is not a mass failure, have gained any traction?

     

    To challenge emotional logic, one needs to hit certain emotional keys .

  • 121. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    Filing a bug report was done right here - with the posting subject saying "bug <description>". And the assumption that as OTN staff monitor this forum, it will be read.

     

    No, I do not have high expectations. Ever. As I have lived in the real world long enough to become a realist.

  • 122. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    I strive to be a self-critical person. People are obviously different and have various perceptions and probably experience a different reality. I believe a combination of stupidity and ego can be fatal. If we get deeper into discussing reality, it will probably get very entertaining.

     

    The forum upgrade did not meet my expectation, which despite of fixes so far and getting used to the new software, has not really changed since day 1.

     

    I think you are exaggerating. Like I previously mentioned, I have not seen anyone complaining in a hateful or unreasonable manner. I'm not sure what "mass failure" means. I know failure, and I think it will be difficult to deny that the forum upgrade has not failed on many levels. Even Oracle said it would be bumpy, which makes me wonder.

  • 123. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BluShadow Guru Moderator
    Currently Being Moderated

    Dude wrote:

    The forum upgrade did not meet my expectation, which despite of fixes so far and getting used to the new software, has not really changed since day 1.

    Hmmm, perhaps your expectation where too high.  I was surprised we could even log on on day 1, and when I did, how easy it was to start finding my way around the new interface.

    As for it "not really changing since day 1", that's also too high an expectation.  Sonya did announce that they were gathering up the issues and prioritising them, and that fixes would be applied monthly as possible, with the first lot of fixes due for this weekend if I recall correctly.  Of course they applied some emergency fixes on-the-fly as needed, but that was more to get things stable rather than to sort out the functionality issues.

     

    I think you are exaggerating. Like I previously mentioned, I have not seen anyone complaining in a hateful or unreasonable manner. I'm not sure what "mass failure" means. I know failure, and I think it will be difficult to deny that the forum upgrade has not failed on many levels. Even Oracle said it would be bumpy, which makes me wonder.

    I think it is in reference to those people who were saying "This forum is rubbish, nothing works, go back to the old forum" and the "How can Oracle make a complete balls up of something like this without testing it first" type of comments.  Those are not constructive comments and do nothing to help identify the issues that need sorting.  Yes, the new forum fails on several levels, but it also works on many levels too... and when you compare that to the old forum... which failed on many levels and worked on many levels too... there really is no difference overall, it's just the things that are working/not-working are different.  At least we get a pretty interface to look at. 

  • 124. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BrianP Journeyer
    Currently Being Moderated

    BillyVerreynne wrote:

     

    If I did not use "wussies", would my comments that the OTN upgrade is not a mass failure, have gained any traction?

    Perhaps, perhaps not, but I think fewer people would have jumped directly into a reflexive, defensive posture over their complaints, thus solidifying their emotional investment in those complaints.

  • 125. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    I do not understand what there is to argue about expecting a forum software that is functioning. I think to question people's expectation or perception of reality is hilarious. I do not want to brag about my experience and achievements in IT, but I would say I am well aware of the challenges and risk management involved.

     

     

    From what I can gather, most people expected a forum that works with an interface that was given some thought. Apparently most users realize very quickly that many aspects of the new forum software do not work, or do not work properly, and that the previous design was more efficient. People are simply disappointed and surprised, because it appears some of the issues could have been determined before going live and possibly prevented.

     

     

    I guess the problem with this discussion is something else. Some people are offended by criticism towards Oracle because they are very loyal Oracle or OTN fans. Some may perhaps see a strategic advantage in protecting Oracle. I think I know what it's like, I used to be a loyal Microsoft, DEC and Apple fan, and during each time, I felt offended by anyone questioned the competence or technology offered by these companies. It can take a while to realize that and perhaps understand the concepts and consequences.

  • 126. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    I agree, like it was mentioned already, the best practice is to acknowledge and accept people's issues, then to work out the details and possible solutions. It's often just a matter of communication and many people are more tolerant after they are being heard and acknowledged. To punch people in the face and calling them wussies just creates a personal issue out of a technical problem and is the wrong conflict resolution strategy. You obviously get some thumbs up though.

  • 127. Re: To all the whining wussies
    PPlatt Explorer
    Currently Being Moderated

    If an upgrade to a product is released into production as an entirely new interface with totally new concepts but without any meaningful user help (except for a few outdated FAQs), I wouldn't call the venting of one's frustration as "whining", but rather a psychological response to one's sense of forced disorientation.

    PaulP

  • 128. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    In other words, whining with a reason?

     

    Sorry Paul, but I do not have much sympathy in such a case. People's true nature is exposed when forcing them outside the comfort of their box. As apply demonstrated by something like special forces training. Which begs the question as to what will happen when someone that whines because of a little discomfort such as this forum upgrade, will react when faced with being forced totally outside their comfort box?

  • 129. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    This is just a forum and not some hurricane or other event that was inevitable and out of control. Considering that people starve to death and in terms of real life, the forum upgrade is just a discomfort. But in terms of IT and profession, assuming that is what are here for, it's rather pathetic and can unfortunately not be denied. Well, you can, depending on where your perceptions, motives and priorities are, but in my opinion does not qualify calling anyone a whining wussie. What is the purpose of this thread?

  • 130. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    I called people who whined about Oracle staff being incompetent, about Oracle Corp being incompetent, about unreasonably slamming the new forum s/w,  as wussies.

     

    Now if you consider yourself a whiner by my definition, then yes - I am calling you a whining wuss. If you consider yourself not to have whined, but instead constructively raised relevant issues critically, then why would you think I'm calling you a wuss?

     

    Interesting that I cut the shoe and then people step up claiming it was cut for them.

  • 131. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    I see no good reason to call anyone a wuss here.

     

    Nevertheless I do find this thread quite entertaining. You definitely scored with this one. Did you see the following article in PC World. I don't generally read PC magazines, but found the following yesterday:

     

    Oracle forums upgrade raises a ruckus among users | PCWorld

  • 132. Re: To all the whining wussies
    Dude! Guru
    Currently Being Moderated

    And btw, I guess this discussion can go on forever because you seem to conveniently ignore or not respond to posts with perhaps compromising questions, and instead continue to pursue your own arguments. Actually 'm tired of this personal BS, and arguing about a stupid piece of software that I did not even get a chance to test or vote for. I think it would be better to work together than against each other. So far the forum software upgrade was not helpful. Also the system is so slooow again today that it is no fun to use it.

  • 133. Re: To all the whining wussies
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated

    The advance editor showed some improvements.

  • 134. Re: To all the whining wussies
    kendenny Expert
    Currently Being Moderated


    I still can't paste without going into html mode which is a real pain.

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