7 Replies Latest reply on Aug 26, 2013 8:07 PM by BAO.SZ Branched to a new discussion.

    Ask for helps and comments for a practicing ADF sample: Entering bank transaction records


      Dear experts:

      I'm redeveloping a practicing ADF sample application based on an exist application system of  my company.

      Here is the goal for this redeveloping:

      What degree of productivity can adf achieve compare to eclipse?


      And hereby is a small example I began from last Monday. some progress has been achieved, but pretty lot of difficulties remained,

      so I post all neccessary informations to this forum, and ask for your kind helps and comments.


      Thank you all in advance!



      The X company has some bank accounts in different banks, also it’s customers may have more than one bank account in different banks. Transactions between the X company’s bank accounts and it’s new or regular customers’ bank accounts happened heavily in daily. Bank transfer records in paper form will be collected and need to be entered into an in-house Financial System(NX1)  of the X company every day.

      This module will implement the function of Entering Bank transactions records for NX1.

      In future, this Data Entering work for NX1 will be handled by some data exchange interface automatically.


      And the following implementation will be based on ORACLE XE 11g,  Jdev/ADF 12c.


      This link can download  the document for the example, I will upload Database scripts and JDEV application files tonight.


      (The above link is a website of our own. if you meet any difficulty when access it, please let me know: jiangjunb@126.com).

        • 2. Re: Ask for helps and comments for a practicing ADF sample: Entering bank transaction records
          Timo Hahn

          BOA .SZ, I'm not sure what you are up to. What I can tell you right away is that we don't do your work.

          We try to help, but it doesn't work in a way that you put some documents up on a server (which most of us will not access as we don't know anything about security on the server) and hoping the community will work out your problems.

          It would take too much time away this way and we are doing this in our free time. We, or most of us, have a job which we need to pay out bills.

          Personally I can only spend a small amount of time for a problem and I don't want to spend it setting up a db and think about a new data model.


          My advise is that you isolate your problems, build small test cases using the hr schema we all know and have readily available. This will help you in two ways:

          1) by trying to describe the problem you are forced to think about the problem and transfer out to the hr schema which will eventually help you to solve the problem yourself.

          2) by isolating a problem and building a small test case which does not have all the other depencies of the big application, you concentrate on the problem itself and not all the other stuff around it. This will save lots of time as you don't have to deploy big apps just to debug a problem. The actions to do in order to get to the error are minimal.



          • 3. Re: Ask for helps and comments for a practicing ADF sample: Entering bank transaction records
            Frank Nimphius-Oracle



            let me correct some of your misconceptions:



            1. Eclipse competes with JDeveloper (not ADF). This is an IDE decision that slightly will impact y technology choice as well. So I assume you are well versed with Java EE (probably in Eclipse you would use Spring, Hibernate or EclipseLink for designing the business services and then build the user interface using JavaServer Faces (or what?). In JDeveloper you can do the same but because of ADF probably would go with the ADF stack.



            2. Choosing ADF  doesn't mean you can't do Eclipse. The Oracle Enterprise Pack for Eclipse brings ADF to Eclipse http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/developer-tools/eclipse/downloads/index.html . Only caveat, ADF Business Components is not available (but this shouldn't matter because if you go with an Eclipse-only approach then ADF BC would not be available too). So now you have ADF in Eclipse and all your developers should be happy as they can now work on the POC with the tool of choice: Here's an ADF , OEPE tutorial - http://www.oracle.com/webfolder/technetwork/tutorials/obe/oepe/oepe11118/oepe_11r1_01.html . Like your XE free database, ADF and OEPE are free if deployed to Glassfish following the ADF Essentials license



            Good luck




            • 4. Re: Ask for helps and comments for a practicing ADF sample: Entering bank transaction records

              Hi, Timo and Frank,

              Thank you all for your kind replies and sound suggestions!

              Now let me talk freely on this thread-and I will limit my topic scope within this Jdev/ADF Space’s theme but maybe in a more broad perspectives. And I will separate topics into different posts to avoid over length of each post. Hope you will have enough patience to read through this some long story!


              Notice: Links in this article will refer to somewhere of OTN itself or a website of our own. There is no security concern on the server. For example:


              (This link is collection of internet links and some abstract for each article on ADF. Not much contents on ADF in Chinese can be found.)


              What you are up to?

              First of all, I need to make some introduction of myself to answer “what you are up to”.

              I come from China, living and working at Shenzhen city which is close to Hong Kong. And now I am running a small software company with 20 employees, our main business is to develop database centered applications which include in-house workflow/information management systems and websites/portals for organizations.

              I have a pretty strong conviction that software technology should emancipate people from routine trivial mental works, just like engines in the industry revolution free people from heavily physical works. So I have a strong inclination for everything to be “automated”.

              For running a company, this “automation” will not only bring the “aesthetics of everything running by itself”, but also will mean more productivity, quality and profits.—After all, no-living stuff is always cheaper than living creatures, let alone to say human beings.

              However, when we software industry tried to automate business fields for our clients, the process of making software itself was still a manpower intensive, less-automation business. and this result a expensive products.


              More than 15 years ago, when I began to work in an IT department of a big organization, I got to know the Oracle Designer/Developer 2000, and have being a diligent FORM/REPORT programmer for more than 4 years. I like the concept and practice of declarative design and automated generation.

              And then more years past, and I left that organization and began to run a software company myself. And during these days, the mainstream technology of software development had been web oriented, Java/J2EE which I had no idea totally. But we have other guys who had expertise on it. So I just leave these works and decisions to them. And it seemed works at the beginning.

              But after several years of business operation of application development for clients, I found this was a difficult-money-earn business. Even if our guys had worked hard, project schedules’ delay, over budget, clients’ complain was easily happened. Sometime we had more projects/contracts than what we can undertake, but we dare not to hire more people. I was confused:

              -Was it a common situation in this field all over the world?

              -What’s the key factor should responsible for?

              -Where to start to improve the situation?

              I know there are many factors should responsible, it’s a complex situation. Find more talented people and give better incentives for them to work hard is one choice—but it’s also a difficult task especially for a small company like ours. So to start from easy and confine solution’s scope is:

              -We have these guys now, what we can do best?


              (To be continued)

              • 5. Re: Ask for helps and comments for a practicing ADF sample: Entering bank transaction records

                Productivity with choice—Is the ADF destined choice?

                When I tried to find out what we can do to improve our business—to be more quicken to response to clients’ requirement, more productivity and lower cost in the whole process, and then get more net incomes. I think and I believe the development process is a key area that should make improvement, and the methodology of development should be changed dramastically:

                -We should drive in cars, not ride on horses. (We should use more machines, not more hands.)


                I myself had no experience on java,j2ee, and web application development until this March, (I majored in Geography and Ecology in university, and I started programming on Foxpro from school by self-learning, and then had formal training and experience on Oracle developer 2000, these were all my experiences in programming and development). But when I dig into our guys’ development process (our guys use SSH:Struts+Spring+Herbernate with eclipse), I still got astonished by the low productivity. For example when clients post some new requirements in a existing system(for example, change some entity’s or business rules, UIs), on my first reflection, it’s easy to implement even if I used Forms+PL/SQL, but our guys don’t think so. Even a simple layout change for pages will need UI guys and java programmers to coordinate and work together and maybe days eclipsed.


                I think the web application development methodology and tools was a retreat from 4GL in perspective of productivity. And there should be a change or a better solution. So I pick up my old toolbox, and after some study, I believe that Jdeveloper/ADF approach is the choice. What encouraged me (or what I like to know) were assertions like these:

                -.Net has more than 30% productivity advantage over J2EE SSH approach.

                -Jdev/ADF has more than 30% productivity advantage over .Net.


                Even though I’m afraid that I maybe mis-comprehended the whole situation-our guys’ productivity was not that low as I think, or the key issue was not the tools but something else-I still think I have found the hammer to knock down the nail. –Am I on the right way now?


                However, when I told this thinking to our development teams, no one agreed with me. The team leaders and senior developers were even strongly objection.

                On this issue, I know encourage, entice or even intimidation will not work. The only way to make the change and shift is to provide a real world example as evidence. And that is the reason for me to start an experiment project/ADF.


                I began this experiment project by myself on part time from this March-I have to get some knowledge on java first. And I had a fresh guy to help me on java. And ask him to learn ADF.

                This experiment project is based on a real world project which was developed with SSH. By this re-development, I hope we can achieve:

                -Make clear JDEV/ADF is a right choice. It has significant productivity advantage.

                -Can replace the old version when it’s ready.


                Other two important factors have to take into consideration on the decision of using ADF and my experiment project is (to my knowledge):

                -There are very few users of ADF in this country. Even jsf was not used widely here. So it’s difficult to find someone who have enough expertise to get help from.

                -There are very few documents and materials on Jdev/ADF in Chinese, 2000 pages of English documents can easily frighten many programmers.

                • 6. Re: Ask for helps and comments for a practicing ADF sample: Entering bank transaction records

                  How to get help from ORACLE on Jdev/ADF locally?

                  A reasonable step to begin such a project is to get familiar (be trained) with the technology first and find someone who can provide help when necessary. The internet and the Oracle Official are two main sources for information and helps. So I registered an account in OTN. It’s a true good friendly and valuable place, the most impressive thing for me is that mrost of questions can be handled within hours from true experts. And it’s free.


                  I also agree you can not get everything by free, payment is necessary in some situation-you see, we ourselves are software provider, we also hope other people will pay for us when they get values from our products or services.

                  I know many years ago that price or cost for products and service from Oracle usually are more expensive than other counterparts. Only big organizations can afford these products or services. For example the cost for Oracle training and consultant service we got 15 years ago was beyond normal users’ thinking at that time. But after these years of increase of wages or house price, that service costs will seems more acceptable now.

                  But my own direct experiences on inquiring from Oracle office made me pretty surer that not much helps can get from Oracle official (China) on Jdeveloper/ADF technology.—I’m not mean Oracle office (China) cannot provide good service, but mean since there is such few users of Jdev/ADF in this country, technicians from Oracle office will have little knowledge and expertise themselves. (If this were not the case, I apologize for my limited knowledge.)

                  I contact to Oracle Local office some months ago as I had described in another post (What degree of productivity can jdev/adf achieve compare to eclipse?), this Monday, I tried again, and my impression have not been changed. Here is the account:



                  (To be continued 3)

                  • 7. Re: Ask for helps and comments for a practicing ADF sample: Entering bank transaction records

                    The challenge of using JDEV/ADF


                    “If you love someone, let him/her use ADF. If you hate someone, let him/her use ADF”

                    “There are three phases of using ADF, the first glimpse will give you a bright, the second trying will lead you to embarrassment, the third practice should bring you harmony.”


                    - One of technical Blog says.(in Chinese)




                    Unfortunately, after nearly 5 months of part time learning and trying, I found myself now in the second phase of using Jdev/ADF-there is a lot of embarrassment, and even more serious situation for me.