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      • 390. Re: Welcome to the new OTN Community!
        BluShadow

        BAO.SZ wrote:

         

        PhHein wrote:

         

        It will be removed, as it is a bug, not a feature.

        Strongly objection !

         

        Are you come from Oracle? Is this an Oracle official statement?

         

        You can object all you like.  You're not the one who would have to tidy up the mess of users who start branching off people's posts just because they've taken a dislike to an answer or fallen out with some other user.

         

        As for who the mods are, as you were told, we're regular members of the forum who were asked by the Oracle admin to take part in helping to keep the forums clear of innapropriate posts etc.  How they decided who they wanted exactly is anybody's guess, though I suspect it was based on active contribution to the forum for one thing.

        • 391. Re: Welcome to the new OTN Community!
          Catch-22

          BluShadow wrote:

           

          No.  If you'd read all the previous posts you'd already know that there's no possibility of going back to the old broken forum.  We have to make do with the new broken forum instead.

           

          Unfortunatelly that seems very true and also funny. The new forum software may have fixed some issues behind the scene, providing more statistics or admin features, which I think was mentioned some time ago. However, the situation for users has not improved and is rather the opposite, often to a point loosing complete usability. What were the OTN desicion makers testing or looking at when they evaluated the new forum software?

           

          Even 2 month after the introduction of the new forum software, there are stability and compatiblity issues. The new editor is one of the biggest pieces of software junk I have ever seen. It looks promissing, but does not even work properly with plain text. I already dismissed a large number of replies because I'm tired of fighting with it. I think a working and reliable forum editor is a key issue for a technical forum and more important than a new forum banner.

           

          I understand that Oracle does not make the forum software. Well, there are several sites that look just like OTN and have the exact same issues with the forum editor, probably using the same software. Problems could have been easily discovered and perhaps addressed prior to the forum upgrade if OTN had not played Santa Claus at the time. Maybe OTN has huge consolidation and an all-in-one solution in mind, but so far it seems it lost the view of the forest for the trees, so to speak.

          • 392. Re: Welcome to the new OTN Community!
            BAO.SZ

            When you cannot create something new and useful, please keep something already there instead of trying to destroy anything you donnot like.

             

            One of  the most important feature of democracy society is having confidence in his people, not rely on the police forces.

             

            I have no interest in how a moderator is decided, I like to do something constructive and useful.

            • 393. Re: Welcome to the new OTN Community!
              BluShadow

              I don't know for sure, but from what I've gleaned there were probably a few key factors:

               

              a) they wanted software that was supported

              b) they had no choice but to get rid of the old forum which was becoming too unstable

              c) they wanted to reintroduce the search functionality (which is certainly an improvement, albeit not 100%)

              d) they had to consider the upgrade to transfer all existing content across to the new one, which although it wasn't 100% migrated in the format it was, did at least get the content across (a different platform from Jive would, I imagine, have caused major problems).

               

              In fairness, the stability issue have improved since the first few days, though I know admin are still working on it, with the assistance of Jive.

              The editor, they know is an issue, and that's being looked at, but they have to do scheduled patches, they can't just push things out on the fly, so when the editor has been improved (I won't dare to imagine it'll be "fixed" ) I'm sure it'll be scheduled into the next available patch.

               

              I agree that the editor is appalling, and that surprises me greatly.  Editors are not a new thing in computing, and developers of an editor should be the ideal people to know what is required of an editor, especially when it comes to formatting code etc.  This poor implementation smells of a school childs project who's new to programming.  I produced better editors myself in the past in both DOS and Windows 3.11 (yes it was that long ago) and even prior to that on my BBC Master 128K.

              • 394. Re: Welcome to the new OTN Community!
                PhHein

                MOD: Branched and deleted a couple of multiposts created by server hiccups.

                • 395. Re: Welcome to the new OTN Community!
                  PhHein

                  BAO.SZ wrote:

                   

                  One of  the most important feature of democracy society is having confidence in his people, not rely on the police forces.

                  Ahem, this is a forum, not a society, and it is owned by Oracle who have set up their rules and Terms of Use, to which you have agreed.

                  • 396. Re: Welcome to the new OTN Community!
                    Catch-22

                    The time it takes to realize a performance problem until it is fixed again has improved, but major issues are still reappearing. I've been logged out quite frequently during the last couple of weeks and internal server errors are even popping up right now. I do not agree that content migration was successful, not considering the failure of <pre> tags, for example.

                     

                    I have no doubt or want to question the reason for the upgrade and choosing Jive was perhaps the most promising. I cannot believe that problems with the forum editor, for example, were not predictable and the upgrade could not wait until major issues were resolved. However, I think Oracle deserves the continued criticism about not providing information and reasonable software quality testing prior and after the forum upgrade, until the problems are finally history.

                     

                    Responses from whoever is in charge and information about what issues have been resolved or are being addressed are as frequent as public holidays.

                    • 397. Re: Welcome to the new OTN Community!
                      BluShadow

                      In fairness, we cannot be fully aware of the responsibilities and workload of those at Oracle who have been assigned (or perhaps it's more "lumbered with") the admin tasks.  Certainly the old admin left to post and Sonya et al have come in and had to deal with a whole load of compilications and trying to figure out what 'features' of the old forum were implemented (or turned off) and why, as well as how to try and upgrade and improve things.  The old forum was definitely grinding to a halt, to the point that the search indexing had to be turned off, it was just dying and there was, as far as I'm aware, not really time to hold back that much; and although testing was done, it's never going to be possible to test all the functionality at the level the forums get hit in real life (aside from the editor which I agree should have been spotted).

                       

                      I do know Sonya has been responding when she can, which isn't as often as some would like, but that's not necessarily her fault.

                      • 398. Re: Welcome to the new OTN Community!
                        BAO.SZ

                        PhHein wrote:

                         

                        BAO.SZ wrote:

                         

                        One of  the most important feature of democracy society is having confidence in his people, not rely on the police forces.

                        Ahem, this is a forum, not a society, and it is owned by Oracle who have set up their rules and Terms of Use, to which you have agreed.

                        Hi,man,

                        There is no evidence to show rules and Terms of Use for this forum or any product from Oracle is based on Anti-democracy-society's common sense.

                        You say you are a moderator here is not enough to mean other users' saying or doing which you don't like is truly violate rules or ToU here.

                        • 399. Re: Welcome to the new OTN Community!
                          BAO.SZ

                          As,

                          http://www.oracle.com/us/legal/terms/index.html
                          4. Use of Community Services

                          Community Services are provided as a convenience to users and Oracle is not obligated to provide any technical support for, or participate in, Community Services.

                          So, Mr. PhHein, when you wrote:

                          It will be removed, as it is a bug, not a feature.

                          I hope you can comfirm:

                          Was it only your own thinking and suggestion? or,

                          Was it an Oracle official statement?

                          • 400. Re: Welcome to the new OTN Community!
                            PhHein

                            BAO.SZ wrote:

                            Was it only your own thinking and suggestion? or,

                            Was it an Oracle official statement?

                            Am I Oracle?

                            • 401. Re: Welcome to the new OTN Community!
                              BAO.SZ

                              Am I Oracle?

                               

                              What are you thinking yourself?   Mr. PhHein.

                              • 402. Re: Welcome to the new OTN Community!
                                BluShadow

                                Boy oh boy, you do like to labour a point.... *yawn*

                                 

                                In the old forum software, only admin/moderators could branch posts from a thread.

                                In the new forum software, there are features, such as this branching which have been mistakenly left open for all users to use.

                                Admin have indicated to the moderating team that such features will be removed/fixed in a future patch as users should not be able to do these things.

                                 

                                So, just because you like to be able to do it, doesn't mean that you should be able to do it.  Maybe you're a good chap and don't abuse such features, but there are others out there who will, and it will be up to the moderators and admin to clean up the mess afterwards, which can be difficult as there is no means of 'merging' posts back into discussions once they've been branched off.

                                 

                                You may think you know how the forum software should work, and have lots of lovely ideas about how flexible it should be made for users so that they can branch and move posts about at their own will, but experience has shown that there are plenty of people out there who will abuse such flexibility.  So whether you like it or not, when the time comes, that feature will be removed from normal use.  That's just the way it is.

                                • 403. Re: Welcome to the new OTN Community!
                                  BAO.SZ


                                  OK, You are the man

                                   

                                  Ps:

                                  The second point we (yes, both you and me!) can labour on is:

                                  Since

                                  In the old forum software, only admin/moderators could branch posts from a thread.

                                  So, this should have not happened in this forum :

                                  but experience has shown that there are plenty of people out there who will abuse such flexibility.

                                  Then,

                                  when the time comes, that feature will be removed from normal use.  That's just the way it is.

                                  And you can display a report on how big a mess have been made by abuse such flexibility after for example half a years(?)

                                  Then you are a true man here

                                  • 404. Re: Welcome to the new OTN Community!
                                    jgarry

                                    I know I will push software over the edge.  Some people think that is abuse, others consider it a positive attribute of curiosity which any forward looking DBA should possess.  As Blu notes, someone has to clean it up.  I would link to a pinup of a pretty janitor here, but that would be abusive, so you'll have to google it yourself.