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    ACE badges and gamification

    Catch-22

      I suppose most people will agree that the point system is affected by gamification. So, if the reward system is gamification, aren't the resulting badges a matter of gamifiation too? I think this is part of the reasons for the controversial debates about the reward system.

       

      How does the ACE badge fit into the equation, which does obviously not depend on accumulated points? Would it not make sense to have at least badges similar to Guru Moderator, such as Guru ACE or Newbie ACE? At least it would be more obvious that ACE is not a matter of the point system.

        • 1. Re: ACE badges and gamification
          Nicolas.Gasparotto

          As long as the point will be accumulated regardless the space you gain them, it will be useless.

          Whether I think I can be considered as Guru Ace in Peoplesoft area, I'd be rather newbie Ace in Ebusiness. So, what's the point to be newbie/guru Ace at all ?

          It's is nothing but an Oracle recognition for past activity, that's it.

          And since I'm also moderator, I should have guru+mod+ace... is it ?

           

          Nicolas.

          • 2. Re: ACE badges and gamification
            Catch-22

            Well, maybe you deserve 3 badges after all . I think the top users lists actually reflect the points accumulated by forum space, although unfortunately, since the last major upgrade, the points achieved per forum are no longer visible.

             

            My point about the Guru ACE and Newbie ACE is two-fold: It helps to dismantle the illusion that it helps to collect points to become ACE, which are ranked above Guru in any charts. And second, it draws a clear line between ACE and contributions to the forum.

            • 3. Re: ACE badges and gamification
              Christian Berg

              If you call them "Guru ACE" and "Newbie ACE" respectively, then what you'll achieve won't be "drawing a clear line" but rather melting the two into one (mentally; in the heads of the people reading that "title") with some weird impacts:

              "Newbie ACE" will make it sound like you're a very capable n00b...an ace amongst newbies that is.

               

              To draw clear lines, the distinction must be precise and absolute.

              Mod status = Moderator

              OTN status = Guru

              ACE status = ACE/ACED

              • 4. Re: ACE badges and gamification
                BluShadow

                "Newbie ACE" will make it sound like you're a very capable n00b...an ace amongst newbies that is.

                 

                I actually read it the other way... as if they've just been made an Ace, whereas a Guru Ace is someone who's excelled at being an Ace.... like creating newbie to guru levels within the Ace category.

                 

                Wherever there are categories there is going to be a conflict in understanding.

                 

                As already said, someone with "Ace" status is often perceived by many to be someone who is somehow better than a Guru, yet I've seen Aces who have posted questions or answers that show they are clueless in some fields.  There are people with "Ace" status simply because they've contributed to Oracle in ways other than posting on the forums, so have very few points or little experience of how to contribute well here.

                 

                Aside from indicating who are moderators and admin (for the purposes of identifying those who can administer the forums), why not just scrap all categories and points, and just show clearly against each member the date they joined and how many posts they've made.  That gives an indication of whether someone is new or not, and an indication of how much they've contributed.  Sure, it's not going to tell you how well people have contributed, but neither does any other indicators.

                • 5. Re: ACE badges and gamification
                  Catch-22

                  What people observe and interpret is usually in the eye of the beholder. However, the current representation of badges mixes function and gamification, such as ACE and Guru. Unlike ACE, Guru is clearly a matter of simply collecting points and hence considered a matter of gamification. The ACE badge and Newbie/Guru badges have nothing to do with each other and their current representation in the forum is misleading in my opinion.

                   

                   

                  If you look at the Moderator badge, it shows a Guru with a M for Moderator, which tells me the user has achieved Guru status with a Moderator function. I don't see why the same should not apply to ACEs. I also think that the recognition or restrictions of the point system should apply to ACE and Moderators as well, and not just "regular" forum members.

                  • 6. Re: ACE badges and gamification
                    Catch-22

                    To be frank, the information that someone achieved Guru status by providing answers or responding to forum posts, to me is worth more in the context or spirit of forum contribution than knowing someone somehow managed to become an ACE.

                     

                    I think your suggestion to scrap the member categories by points is not a bad idea, but will not work for newcomers and other people who, right or wrong, are participating to build up a good personal reputation. And I think that is the main reason for people participating in the first place. Everything else, such as the benefit of learning, or being shanghaied, come later by experience.

                     

                    Perhaps there are better ideas, but I think the best option is to combine achieved function, such as Moderator and ACE (Oracle advocate), with an indication of achieved status by forum activity such as Guru.

                    • 7. Re: ACE badges and gamification
                      gleng

                      If you are interested in where Jive is going with "gamification", this maybe of interest:

                       

                      https://community.jivesoftware.com/community/jivetalks/blog/2014/03/03/gamification-series-take-two-winning-with-gamific…

                       

                      I have not had a chance to review the above but I assume it is current as it is dated Monday of this week.

                       

                      I recall an OTN post suggesting the point system will be replaced:

                      Re: Forum space for testing

                       

                      have a good day,

                      GlenG

                      • 8. Re: ACE badges and gamification
                        BPeaslandDBA

                        You can always mouse over the Ace user's icon and see how many points they have accumulated. Then you get not only their Ace-level designation but also a measure of their contributions to the forums.

                         

                         

                         

                        Cheers,
                        Brian

                        • 9. Re: ACE badges and gamification
                          gleng

                          Here's another metric I stumbled upon.

                           

                           

                          When you create a pdf of a thread it includes (total?) posts since:

                           

                           

                          Dude! 7,999 posts since Mar 17, 1998 (current points show 8796)

                           

                          Nicolas.Gasparotto 25,182 posts since Aug 22, 2002 (current points show 11,958)

                           

                          Christian Berg 2,101 posts since Jan 11, 2008 (current points show 2,636)

                           

                          BluShadow 27,092 posts since Sep 21, 2005 (current points show 22,531)

                           

                          gleng 1,753 posts since Feb 10, 2010 (current points show 1,541)

                           

                          BPeasland 7,005 posts since Nov 30, 2010 (current points show 15072)

                           

                           

                          If we think of ROI (return on investment) as points  per post then:

                           

                          Dube! 8796/7999 = 1.099

                          Nicolas.Gasparotto 11958/25182 = 0.474

                          Christian Berg 2636/2101 = 1.254

                          BluShadow 22531/27092 = 0.831

                          gleng 1541/1753 = 0.879

                          BPeasland 15072/7005 = 2.151

                           

                          BPeaslandDBA you are my [temporary] hero.

                           

                          Basically I ignore the badge and do the rollover when I care.

                           

                          With all the inconsistencies in the way(s) the various databases have been merged over the years - content deleted, accounts not properly merged, points warded differences - I don't see where today the system has much creditability.

                           

                          Along with the ACEs, we also have Oracle employee branding with the -oracle postfix.

                           

                          GlenG

                          • 10. Re: ACE badges and gamification
                            BPeaslandDBA

                            Awesome!!!

                            • 11. Re: ACE badges and gamification
                              Catch-22

                              Of course you can, but that's not what this is about. For instance, you are neglecting people's perception.

                              • 12. Re: ACE badges and gamification
                                Catch-22

                                You may want to keep in mind that the reward system was only introduced in 2008. Some forums also tend to be better to harvest points than others. It probably depends on the audience and topics, which none of the statistics are considering.

                                 

                                The info you are outlining was actually displayed when you opened the biography of a user before the last major forum upgrade. What I have learned however is that this kind of statistic is highly unfair when used to compare member performance or being displayed in public. It was one of the things I suggest at the time to be removed from public view as the information is misleading.

                                 

                                Also I was trying to avoid a discussion about the point system. I was only suggesting to consider the wrong perception of the displayed badges.

                                • 13. Re: ACE badges and gamification
                                  Catch-22

                                  And by the way, there is a ACE Moderator badge as well as ACE Director Moderator badge. See Nicolas.Gasparotto So if you are ACE and Moderator, then the forum (surprise!) is not even showing the correct badge.

                                  • 14. Re: ACE badges and gamification
                                    BluShadow

                                    yeah, Nicolas has already pointed out (when the forum first changed) that he didn't have the moderator "M" like the rest of us.  that'll teach him to be an Ace... hehe!

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