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    Scriptaculous

    453354
      I've just been looking at hooking Scriptaculous into APEX.

      People are acheving good results with this library and it's getting quite popular. For instance, check out these demos.

      Below are my results. On the plus side, it only took an hour or so from downloading it to getting this up and running. On the downside, it is very buggy in Internet Explorer. I'm glad I don't have to fight with many of these cross browser issues during my day job.

      http://apex.oracle.com/pls/otn/f?p=33321:5

      Just figured I'd post this in case anyone was interested or in case anyone searches on this in the future!

      Ben
        • 1. Re: Scriptaculous
          Jes
          Ben,

          Dang! I was going to post an example of what I'd done with the Yahoo UI components, which is pretty similar (draggable, fades etc), but you beat me to the punch ;)

          Nice example, we definitely need more of these.
          • 2. Re: Scriptaculous
            453354
            Hehe :)

            I meant to say, please shout up if you are interested and I can tidy these up and document them a little better.

            I was also really quite dissapointed with how they turned out in IE out of the box so may have to swallow my pride and dig into some Javascript!
            • 3. Re: Scriptaculous
              Jes
              Ben,

              Here's my example -

              http://yui.shellprompt.net

              Does that work any better in IE for you?

              Note you can only drag the table around once you've pressed the 'Fade In' button.
              • 4. Re: Scriptaculous
                VANJ
                Nice work, I started playing around with these libraries a few months ago; was highly impressed with their quality, ease of use, integration with any web development environment.

                Your examples are top-notch, do write up some how-tos on integrating with Apex.

                Do your examples persist any of the front-end stuff back in session state for use by server-side components?

                But, at the end of the day, after one gets over the "wow, cool" factor, I don't really see them adding much business value (looking at it from a day-job perspective). Do you?

                [This might lead to a repeat of the conclusions we arrived at on that other thread Doug started regarding themes, ability of "techie" folks to appreciate artistic stuff, and all that!]
                • 5. Re: Scriptaculous
                  VANJ
                  Another Javascript library to investigate is JQuery (http://jquery.com). I am simply amazed by its concise notation and size. The compressed library is just 10KB!

                  See Re: Document Library packaged application

                  [Sigh, so many libraries, so little time!]
                  • 6. Re: Scriptaculous
                    Jes
                    Vikas,
                    But, at the end of the day, after one gets over the "wow, cool" factor, I don't really see them adding much business value (looking at it from a day-job perspective). Do you?
                    Well actually yes I do, some features more than others however.

                    I used Flickr the other day to organise some of my photo's into sets, something which I've never done before and the drag and drop UI they use is simply awesome (as much as I hate using the word 'awesome').

                    Sure, the drag&drop on Flickr (and other sites) is a 'wow' factor, but it's also makes some operations incredibly simple and logical (dragging photos into a set for example).

                    If you use these types of features just for the sake of them then yes they'll probably 'jar', however used in the right places they can actually increase the usefulness of the application not to mention increasing the productivity for the end user, which is something I was trying to put across in that other thread on Themes you mentioned.
                    • 7. Re: Scriptaculous
                      453354
                      Thanks for your comments Vikas.

                      I haven't investigated persisting anything as yet. After a very quick scan though, it seems that the libraries go some way towards making this as easy as possible - though sadly much of the helpers are geared towards that flavour of the day, Ruby on Rails.

                      I'll agree with Jes re their usage. Drag and drop is awesome and I think some of these effects might be useful in a richer web application that makes heavy use of partial page refresh.

                      Within a few years, I'm sure we will see nicer, richer, more responsive web UIs than we do on the desktop partly because these libraries make it easy for developers like me, who otherwise couldn't be bothered fighting with Javascript and cross browser issues.

                      Ben
                      • 8. Re: Scriptaculous
                        VANJ
                        (dragging photos into a set for example)

                        Call me a Luddite but in the "traditional" UI, isn't that simply checking boxes next to a bunch of photos, selecting a target folder from some dropdown list and clicking some button to "make it so". What's so terrible about that?

                        [John, I know what you are saying, I am just playing devil's advocate to get alternative points of view]
                        • 9. Re: Scriptaculous
                          Jes
                          Well like I said, you have to pick where it can 'enhance' functionality, in the example I used it reduced what I needed to do down to two steps -

                          1) Highlight multiple photos (I could do this with one mouse movement)
                          2) Drag all the photos into the set

                          Using the 'click and add' method would have required me to do more work, now I admit that the 'more work' that I had to do wasn't exactly having to dig a coal mine, or strip a car engine down...but still, why not make it easier to do the tasks you have to do?
                          • 10. Re: Scriptaculous
                            VANJ
                            Within a few years, I'm sure we will see nicer, richer, more responsive web UIs

                            Well, if you believe the media buzz, "Web 2.0" (I hate that cheesy moniker) and the tools to build it are already here!

                            http://www.intelfind.com/best_sites/
                            http://www.carsonworkshops.com/summit/

                            http://www.scalix.com/products/scalixwebaccess.html
                            http://www.zimbra.com

                            The last 2 were discussed in a year-old thread here at Re: Future direction of HTML DB
                            • 11. Re: Scriptaculous
                              453354
                              Call me a Luddite but in the "traditional" UI, isn't that simply checking boxes next to a bunch of photos, selecting a target folder from some dropdown list and clicking some button to "make it so". What's so terrible about that?

                              There's nothing terrible about it - it's served us well so far.

                              To me though, that's a web/transactional/stateless way of thinking about UI interaction. - ie we specify what we want, hit send, wait for the server to complete the request and confirm it's result to us before we continue.

                              Nowadays though, we're supposedly trying to replicate the desktop UI - a more responsive, continuous & stateful experience.

                              AJAX and these toolkits help us to get there.
                              • 12. Re: Scriptaculous
                                VANJ
                                Nowadays though, we're supposedly trying to replicate the desktop UI - a more responsive, continuous & stateful experience

                                Ben: Yes, I agree with that, but designing a UI like that is more than just throwing some Ajax-powered toolkits into the mix. It needs a lot of thought, a lot of UI design experience, among other things.

                                Here are some links on the topic from my del.icio.us collection

                                http://swik.net/Ajax/Ajax+Mistakes
                                http://www.intertwingly.net/blog/2005/03/16/AJAX-Considered-Harmful
                                http://sourcelabs.com/ajb/archives/2005/05/ajax_mistakes.html

                                Those links are more than a year old so hopefully all the new and updated JS toolkits out there have already taken all these "common mistakes" into account, not sure about that.

                                [The thing about Ajax breaking the Back button really gets me going, I hate when that happens!]
                                • 13. Re: Scriptaculous
                                  ChrisR
                                  Ben et all

                                  Was atracted by the title and would like to see the how to documents as well.

                                  Thats if you get time.

                                  Just to put my two pence in...

                                  I think that anything that enhances the usability or the "sexyness" of applications developed using APEX is a good thing.

                                  The more that we can integrate with open source and freely available scripts/code/websites etc the more people will look at Apex in a new light.

                                  If it attracts some more people to using Apex instead of something else then it can only be a good thing.

                                  What about posting some demos on the OTN site as people may not come looking in the forum for them and the forum is for the already converted.

                                  I think we should let the unconverted know what Apex REALY can do instead of what some people think it does which is import a spreadsheet and no more.

                                  Regards

                                  Chris

                                  P.S. Fantastic work Ben hope everything is all going well I am glad to see you are still working with Apex. I must have taught you well my young apprentice.
                                  • 14. Re: Scriptaculous
                                    81853
                                    Is there anyone out there that have implemented the drag n drop feat of scriptaculous like in this example?

                                    http://demo.script.aculo.us/shop
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