1 19 20 21 22 23 Previous Next 385 Replies Latest reply: Aug 20, 2007 7:26 AM by Alessandro Rossi Go to original post RSS
      • 300. Re: Treatment of zero-length strings as NULLs?
        400137
        I am reading this post since it was initially posted, but I didn't involved before because I think it is non-sense and wasting time.

        Albert, seriously, you are trying to make a hole in the water here.

        Have you ever read the official documentation?

        Read the documentation first and learn the rules, if you like them play the game, otherwise find another product that matches your criteria.

        At the end of the day, we are all working to satisfy our end-users, they don't really care how Oracle treats nulls and empty strings.
        • 301. Re: Treatment of zero-length strings as NULLs?
          32685
          I never had you down as someone who would wear bikinis - that's London for you though.
          • 302. Re: Treatment of zero-length strings as NULLs?
            Billy~Verreynne
            > Call me old-fashioned but I prefer a zero-size
            bikini. I like to leave something to the imagination.

            So what exactly does a zero size bikini cover/not cover that a no-bikini does not?

            Hmm.. William, I think we must go on a field trip to discover the truth. Down south. Down under. There is an expert shop in making really small bikinis. They may be able to enlighten us on the difference between a zero-bikini and an no-bikini. Ever heard of the guys and gals at the wickedweasel manufacturing shop?
            • 303. Re: Treatment of zero-length strings as NULLs?
              537882
              Scott proved NOTHING. Scott was joking. Except that,
              it was not Scott who was supposed to disprove my
              conclusion.
              I think you'll find he did a fantastic job of disproving your conclusion.

              You addressed the original "challenge" (such as it was) to me, but when I asked you restate your proposition in unambiguous way you ignored me.

              Specifically (although I don't want to get in it again) I found reference to "The Aristotle Principle" ambiguous.

              I also wanted you to clarify whether you claim your statement was a "valid proposition" or a "true proposition".
              • 304. Re: Treatment of zero-length strings as NULLs?
                551707
                It is like you you seeing a mental picture of Jenna Jameson...
                What is analogous to Jena Jameson in automobile industry?

                What (who) in Show Business?

                In Paradise?
                • 305. Re: Treatment of zero-length strings as NULLs?
                  537882
                  But becareful to avoid the skin tone burqini
                  • 306. Re: Treatment of zero-length strings as NULLs?
                    551707
                    I am reading this post since it was initially posted,
                    but I didn't involved before because I think it is
                    non-sense and wasting time.
                    Then, why you are wasting your time? Personally, I would be very happy to see this thread closed since I know all what I wanted to know posting my initial question.

                    >
                    Albert, seriously, you are trying to make a hole in
                    the water here.
                    No, you are wrong. For me, from my point of view, this thread is finished. Don't ask and I will not be responding.

                    >
                    Have you ever read the official documentation?
                    Read the documentation first and learn the rules, if
                    you like them play the game, otherwise find another
                    product that matches your criteria.
                    The documentation I already read is pretty enough to deal with the point of the thread.

                    >
                    At the end of the day, we are all working to satisfy
                    our end-users,
                    I'm also working the whole day (8:00 AM - 5:00 PM or even more).
                    ... they don't really care how Oracle
                    treats nulls and empty strings.
                    Why are they asking then?

                    Regards

                    Albert
                    • 307. Re: Treatment of zero-length strings as NULLs?
                      245482
                      Removed because my next comment made this one redundant.
                      • 308. Re: Treatment of zero-length strings as NULLs?
                        245482
                        No, I really wasn't joking. You asked for a proof, and since it was so simple I provided one. The point is that the law of the excluded middle does not apply to 3-value logic precisely because the specification of NULL allows for the creation of propositions which are neither true nor false. Rather they are "unknown".

                        You're a smart enough fellow, but I have to agree that you're out of your depth.
                        • 309. Re: Treatment of zero-length strings as NULLs?
                          551707
                          No, I really wasn't joking. You asked for a proof, and since it was so simple I provided one.
                          The point is that the law of the excluded middle does not apply to 3-value logic precisely
                          because the specification of NULL allows for the creation of propositions which are neither
                          true nor false. Rather they are "unknown".
                          Scott, please, don't make me laugh. Admit once again that you are serious. If so, all I can do is to repeat this once again:

                          Unless being a joke, your "disproof" could eventually be accepted only as a part of some topic in the "Intellectual Self-Abuse: The Complete Reference Guide".

                          What is domain of attribute (column) "AGE" in an employees table? I'd say 18-65 ages. If a scalar is UNKNOWN, is it "totally unknown" or just "partially unknown"? I'd say partially, since we exactly know that 250 years old man cannot be an employee in our company.

                          What is domain of logic values in a logical expressions? I'd say {TRUE, FALSE, UNKNOWN}.

                          What is domain (in this case subdomain) of UNKNOWN? I'd say {TRUE, FALSE}. Cannot be UNKNOWN "once again"! A proposition A cannot be "neither true nor false". Just the information about value of A can be UNKNOWN (we don't know is it TRUE or FALSE since the information about it is missing - NULL).

                          Otherwise, how then ( TRUE OR UNKNOWN ) = TRUE is true, and how then (FALSE AND UNKNOWN ) = FALSE is true?

                          Hope this helps.


                          Regards

                          Albert
                          • 310. Re: Treatment of zero-length strings as NULLs?
                            6363
                            Scott proved NOTHING.
                            Re: Treatment of zero-length strings as NULLs?

                            Then perhaps you will point out where his mistake is, if you can remove your head for long enough and try and retain it in your memory for more than a couple of hours?
                            • 311. Re: Treatment of zero-length strings as NULLs?
                              6363
                              If I used "arses and elbows", the "3360" would still be buzzing.
                              Hello Albert, looks like you are wrong again, so no change there.
                              • 312. Re: Treatment of zero-length strings as NULLs?
                                245482
                                As long as we're repeating ourselves around here, "this is simple logic -- hence you can't just call it a dis-proof but you are rather expected to point out a logical fallacy in one or more of the steps. That's how math works."
                                • 313. Re: Treatment of zero-length strings as NULLs?
                                  551707
                                  As long as we're repeating ourselves around here,
                                  "this is simple logic -- hence you can't just call it
                                  a dis-proof but you are rather expected to point out
                                  a logical fallacy in one or more of the steps. That's
                                  how math works.
                                  "
                                  No Scott, that's NOT how math works. That's how a half-breed intellectual works. But I know you are NOT this one.

                                  Anyway, I appreciate and respect your intention to protect someone who is inferior. It's very nice from you. But it doesn't derive my obligation to do the same. Everyone must be responsible for himself and his outspoken words.

                                  Regards

                                  Albert
                                  • 314. Re: Treatment of zero-length strings as NULLs?
                                    511898
                                    I once heard a demonstration of why NULL has no meaning.

                                    Which would you rather have? Complete happiness in life for all of humanity OR a sandwich?

                                    The correct answer is: A sandwich.

                                    Why? Because everyone would agree that there's nothing better than complete happiness in life for all humanity... But a sandwich is better than nothing.

                                    The lesson here is that by assigning a meaning to Nothing (or NULL) you invite comparison. Even if that meaning is "I don't know" or "Not currently defined" or one of the zillion other meanings people have tried to use to define NULL. Every meaning ever assigned to NULL (other than "it has no meaning") equates to a flag or set of values describing the state of the data. For instance, stating that "A NULL in this column means that the value is unknown" equates to a "IS_KNOWN_FLAG" describing the data, not the NULL in the column.

                                    Now why zero-length VARCHAR's are treated as NULLs is a mystery to me. You could as easily consider them not-NULL strings of zero length. It would be as valid as the chosen approach.
                                    1 19 20 21 22 23 Previous Next