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  • 30. Re: Is Forms going to be History ?
    Jacob Madsen Explorer
    Currently Being Moderated
    This discussion is very interesting, and yes, I've seen it before myself aswell. The development with Forms on the Application Server is interesting to follow, and indeed a lot of great features have been added, and we in my company look forward to Forms 11 - if not for anything else, then at least to get Java 1.6 official support (hint hint) ;)

    But one thing, that another user wrote about in this thread, and which puzzles me as well, is - why does it seem to me, that all the work going on with Forms regarding Forms is in the OracleAS part of it, when actually what mostly needs an update, is the Forms Builder itself. Quite frankly - I work in both JDeveloper and Forms Builder daily, and it really dazzles me, how big the difference is between those 2 IDE's.

    JDeveloper has gone through a major makeover to make it to the current version, and today it's a really awesome Java development tool, far from the JBuilder copy it once was. It has a lot of useful tools to make day-to-day development very easy, like code collapsing, code completion, easy navigation through the Navigator pane etc

    And I keep asking myself - why doesn't Forms Builder provide some of the same useful tools? I started with Forms on Forms 6i, which I still use, because we must still support our systems for 6i C/S. But looking at the latest Forms Builder 10g, it's hard to see any development at all here - a little UI polishment yes, but that's more or less it. Where are features like:

    - Code formatting as per user-defined rules
    - Code completion
    - Code collapsing (look at JDeveloper to see how great this feature is to create overview)
    - Ability to navigate to specific procedure/function within a program unit directly though the Object Navigator instead of having to press Ctrl+F to find a procedure way long down there....
    - Keyboard shortcuts to "Search and replace in PL/SQL" (boy, I miss this)
    - The simple ability to open 2 code windows at once (without opening them through search...) Today I often use an external editor like UltraEdit for this.

    All simple stuff, that IMO should be pretty straighforward to add to the Forms Builder to make day-to-day development easier - and features, that most other IDE's have been able to for years...

    Some other suggestions for enhancement I would like to make, now that I'm at it, could be:

    - Direct editing of OLB's without having to keep a separate FMB to copy back and forth from, whenever you need to update an OLB.
    - Preview the objects in an open OLB somehow before dragging the suitcase over the FMB.
    - And for existing keyboard shortcuts - please don't change them from one version to another. The layout editor's layer shortcuts - Move front/back/forwards/backwards - was easy to use in 6i, was F5-8, so why change them in 9i and onwards? Nowadays I have to use the mouse, because the new keyboard shortcuts are very inconvenient on a Danish-layout keyboard, where [ and ] is on the Alt+8 and Alt+9 - in fact, I haven't yet figured out how to activate them through the keyboard yet.

    To put it shortly, here's my prayer to Forms Management - please let Forms Builder develop in the next version, not only the server components.... after all, it's the IDE you actually work with as a developer....

    My 2 cents.
  • 31. Re: Is Forms going to be History ?
    484825 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    It's already possible to open 2 code windows when you use shift and dubble click the program unit.
  • 32. Re: Is Forms going to be History ?
    Jacob Madsen Explorer
    Currently Being Moderated
    Thanks a lot, I've never known that - and neither had my colleague, who has been working with Forms all the way from version 4.5...

    Are there any other "hidden features" regarding the stuff I wrote about? ;)
  • 33. Re: Is Forms going to be History ?
    Grant Ronald Employee ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    "Keyboard shortcuts to "Search and replace in PL/SQL" (boy, I miss this)"

    CTRL F ???
  • 34. Re: Is Forms going to be History ?
    Grant Ronald Employee ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    Ah hold on thats only in the current PL/SQL....
  • 35. Re: Is Forms going to be History ?
    508145 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    "It's already possible to open 2 code windows when you use shift and dubble click the program unit."

    This (and the CTRL+F) don't seem to work in Forms [32 Bit] Version 9.0.4.2.0 (Production). The only way I found to open a second window was by using search and replace.
  • 36. Re: Is Forms going to be History ?
    Rosario Vigilante Journeyer
    Currently Being Moderated
    It works both with

    Forms 6i Forms [32 Bit] Version 6.0.8.23.2 (Production)
    and
    Forms 10gR2 Forms [32 Bit] Version 10.1.2.0.2 (Production).
  • 37. Re: Is Forms going to be History ?
    Grant Ronald Employee ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    9.0.4.0.19 - works ok.
  • 38. Re: Is Forms going to be History ?
    FrançoisDegrelle Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    Works fine with 9.0.2 too.

    Francois
  • 39. Re: Is Forms going to be History ?
    Grant Ronald Employee ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    A community QA effort ;o)
  • 40. Re: Is Forms going to be History ?
    FrançoisDegrelle Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    Notice that the same key combination can be used to open another property palette dialog box.

    Francois
  • 41. Re: Is Forms going to be History ?
    508145 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    I had 3 different developers in our organization check this feature. None got a second code window to open. Two developers are running Forms [32 Bit] Version 9.0.4.2.0 (Production), and a third is running Forms [32 Bit] Version 10.1.2.0.2 (Production). All are running under Win XP. Enabling the System Editor checkbox in preferences did not help. Apparently, there must be some other setting that affects this feature...
  • 42. Re: Is Forms going to be History ?
    user346369 Expert
    Currently Being Moderated
    > Apparently, there must be some other setting that affects this feature...

    To get a second PL/SQL editor window to open, you should shift and double-click the icon, not the name of the procedure, and you must click on a different program unit than the one that is already open. Double-clicking opens that program unit in a new window, and unless you drag that window to a new location, it looks like it is in the same window as the earlier program unit. But the earlier program unit is in a window lying directly underneath the new window.

    ...and I hope you are not running with your PL/SQL editor window maximized. If you are, there is no way to see the second window. (I have seen associates do this and it drives me nuts!)

    Try it again.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Now while we are on the topic of multiple windows open, you can open two property palette windows and compare side-by-side using this same process. Only there is one more thing: You must click the "freeze/unfreeze" icon (the yellow thumb-tack) at the top of the window to lock that window on one object, then click on the other object in the object navigator, and its properties show up in the unfrozen palette.
  • 43. Re: Is Forms going to be History ?
    508145 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    Yes, the double palette is nice. We use it regularly.

    But we still can't get a dual editor window for the PL/SQL. We are clicking on the icon, and making sure the window is not maximized or that the second window is not behind the first. We also tried opening the first window using the menu, then doing the shift double click, but no-go. If we minimize the window, then do a Shift + double click the minimized window just comes back up. Moving and minimizing did not reveal any second window behind it. Furthermore, when we went to the menubar, and clicked on Window, only the one window was shown, proof that there is no second window.

    As I mentioned, none of our developers could get this feature to work on their workstations. I'm suspecting this feature is controlled by the type of editor (or a registry setting). There are some editors which don't allow multiple instances.

    Can you tell me if your preference setting shows the System Editor checked, and can you toggle this to see if it affects this feature?

    The help documentation for System Editor states:
    "Determines which editor Oracle Forms uses when you invoke an editor from a multi-line text item. When Use System Editor is unchecked, Oracle Forms displays the default editor. When Use System Editor is checked, Oracle Forms displays the default system editor defined on your system.

    Note: If Use System Editor is checked and you are using an editor with a native document format, you must save the document as ASCII text (with line breaks), instead of saving the document in that editor's format.

    For more information about defining the default system editors, refer to the Oracle Forms documentation for your operating system."

    Not sure what the default editor Forms is using, or how to specify a which specific editor to use.

    Message was edited by:
    user505142
  • 44. Re: Is Forms going to be History ?
    221488 Journeyer
    Currently Being Moderated
    I wonder if you are trying to open a second window with the same trigger/procedure. That doesn't work. You can however open a new window for a different procedure by holding down the shift key. It works for me in 10.1.2.

    To use the external editor do this:

    Windows
    1) In the registry, set FORMS_EDITOR (FORMS_EDITOR) to the desired editor,
    e.g. "C:\Program Files\Windows NT\Accessories\wordpad.exe".
    2) In Forms Builder, check 'Use System Editor' under Tools-Preferences-General.
    3) Now, after opening a PL/SQL editor (editing trigger code for instance),
    choose Program-External Editor and WordPad pops up.

    Unix
    1) Export the environmental variable FORMS_EDITOR to the desired editor, e.g.
    /usr/openwin/bin/xedit: export FORMS_EDITOR=/usr/openwin/bin/xedit.
    2) In forms builder, check 'Use System Editor' under Tools-Preferences-General.
    3) Now, after opening a PL/SQL editor (editing trigger code for instance),
    choose Program-External Editor and xedit pops up.