1 2 3 4 5 Previous Next 62 Replies Latest reply on Mar 9, 2010 6:20 PM by justinkestelyn Go to original post
      • 45. Re: Why is Oracle Support so Bad?
        jgarry
        Careful Ben, you'll get the PC police after you. But anyways, weren't things sent to India long ago? I seem to have gotten Australia, Colorado and California on the few calls I've made this past year, and they've been fairly decent compared to the actual bugs I've been calling about, which appear to come from poor third-world development and a java mindset.
        # Java version:
        # Java HotSpot(TM) Server VM (mixed mode)
        #
        # HotSpot Virtual Machine Error, Internal Error
        # Please report this error to HP customer support.
        #
        # Java VM: Java HotSpot(TM) Server VM (1.4.2 1.4.2.07-050121-21:06-IA64N IA64 mixed mode)
        #
        # Fatal: CodeCache: no room for CodeBuffer constructor
        #
        # Error ID: /CLO/Components/JAVA_HOTSPOT/Src/src/share/vm/asm/codeBuffer.cpp, 104
        #
        # Problematic Thread: prio=6 tid=00082610 nid=10 lwp_id=3911380 runnable
        #
        
        Heap at VM Abort:
        Heap
         def new generation   total 34432K, used 22211K [5d400000, 5f950000, 62950000)
          eden space 30656K,  65% used [5d400000, 5e7b1410, 5f1f0000)
          from space 3776K,  54% used [5f5a0000, 5f79f900, 5f950000)
          to   space 3776K,   0% used [5f1f0000, 5f1f0000, 5f5a0000)
         tenured generation   total 76204K, used 63931K [62950000, 673bb000, 6d400000)
           the space 76204K,  83% used [62950000, 667bed48, 667bee00, 673bb000)
         compacting perm gen  total 46080K, used 45866K [6d400000, 70100000, 73400000)
           the space 46080K,  99% used [6d400000, 700ca8b8, 700caa00, 70100000)
        ----- Mon Feb  1 17:45:10 2010::DBConsole exited at Mon Feb  1 17:45:10 2010 with signal 6 -----
        ----- Mon Feb  1 17:45:10 2010::DBConsole has exited due to an internal error -----
        ----- Mon Feb  1 17:45:10 2010:: - checking for corefile at /oracle/app/oracle/product/10.2.0/db_1/XXXXXXXXXX/sysman/emd -----
        ----- Mon Feb  1 17:45:10 2010::Restarting DBConsole. -----
        ----- Mon Feb  1 17:45:10 2010::Console Launched with PID 23303 at time Mon Feb  1 17:45:10 2010 -----
        10/02/01 17:45:13 Warning: Error reading transaction-log file (/oracle/app/oracle/product/10.2.0/db_1/oc4j/j2ee/OC4J_DBConsole_xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/persistence/transaction.state) for recovery: premature end of file
        10/02/01 17:45:13 Forced or abrupt (crash etc) server shutdown detected, starting recovery process...
        10/02/01 17:45:13 Recovery completed, 0 connections committed and 0 rolled back...
        10
        Pretty sad considering only Oracle dbconsole uses java on this system. On top of it getting very confused about its own port ownership and bad code to figure out which process is dbconsole. Support sez "please supply RDA..."
        So what's that HP support message all about?

        Maybe Oracle support is so bad because the whole tech stack is Uncle Wiggly.
        • 46. Re: Why is Oracle Support so Bad?
          stellios
          "This is the net result of when support has been sent to India. Expect things to get much worse."

          One of the overlooked aspects of sending support overseas is the privacy and confidentiality aspects of data involved. Not sure how seriously it is taken in some countries or how the local laws apply but alot of the world's data is ending up in their hands.
          • 47. Re: Why is Oracle Support so Bad?
            alanm
            If I gave a party that people paid large amounts of money to attend then yes, if things weren't correct I would expect to receive some critisism or even refund people. Will Oracle do that, not a chance.

            this is a typical large organisations attitude to the rest of the community which we see evidence of every day.
            • 48. Re: Why is Oracle Support so Bad?
              Hans Forbrich
              alanm wrote:
              If I gave a party that people paid large amounts of money to attend then yes, if things weren't correct I would expect to receive some criticism or even refund people. Will Oracle do that, not a chance.
              Now how would you feel about those people using your resources to make that criticism public?

              That said - Oracle has received a number of posts in the Communities that discuss, criticize, and more, because of the quality of MOS. Those threads are still there. The users are still there. Some contain gripes that are being addressed.

              Since things ARE moving forward, I get the feeling this whole thread, and especially this sub-thread, is a morbidly amusing waste of electrons. But opinions being worth what they are, I do understand other opinions may be as (in)valid as mine.
              • 49. Re: Why is Oracle Support so Bad?
                jgarry
                Hans Forbrich wrote:
                alanm wrote:
                If I gave a party that people paid large amounts of money to attend then yes, if things weren't correct I would expect to receive some criticism or even refund people. Will Oracle do that, not a chance.
                Now how would you feel about those people using your resources to make that criticism public?

                That said - Oracle has received a number of posts in the Communities that discuss, criticize, and more, because of the quality of MOS. Those threads are still there. The users are still there. Some contain gripes that are being addressed.
                I gotta say, some of those users aren't still there. And some of my posts haven't. Posted, that is.

                >
                Since things ARE moving forward, I get the feeling this whole thread, and especially this sub-thread, is a morbidly amusing waste of electrons. But opinions being worth what they are, I do understand other opinions may be as (in)valid as mine.
                If you think mindless reminders to enable OCM, flash, software that loses posts, mindless reminders to submit RDA's, viral ccr that violates the most basic security, etc etc is moving forward, we better spin you around and stand you on your head! :-)
                • 50. Re: Why is Oracle Support so Bad?
                  Hans Forbrich
                  jgarry wrote:
                  If you think mindless reminders to enable OCM, flash, software that loses posts, mindless reminders to submit RDA's, viral ccr that violates the most basic security, etc etc is moving forward, we better spin you around and stand you on your head! :-)
                  LOL.

                  I agree those are NOT the areas that are moving forward. I have, and still do, complain about those specific issues.

                  However, there are a number of items I have written about - go ahead an read my blog or read my comments in the communities if you want to know which ones. And SOME (not all) have been addressed.

                  I have to admit I am surprised that your posts are missing. None of mine have disappeared. And Kathryn's posts and commentary ("enough is enough, when is Metalink coming back?") are still there.

                  As for the mindless OCM reminders and viral ccr, that's easy enough to fix. Install XE on a stoopid site, add a gmail id as the user, and enable CCR. That way they are happy, the information is innocuous, the beast is fed even though it's chopped liver, and the reminders are gone.
                  • 51. Re: Why is Oracle Support so Bad?
                    Nicolas.Gasparotto
                    Hans Forbrich wrote:
                    ...
                    As for the mindless OCM reminders and viral ccr, that's easy enough to fix. Install XE on a stoopid site, add a gmail id as the user, and enable CCR. That way they are happy, the information is innocuous, the beast is fed even though it's chopped liver, and the reminders are gone.
                    That's a nice workaround for sure, as you explained in of your blog's entries. But that's not always applicable in every company, especially where there are very disctinct departments to manage servers, db, network, MOS access and so on...

                    Nicolas.
                    • 52. Re: Why is Oracle Support so Bad?
                      Hans Forbrich
                      N Gasparotto wrote:
                      Hans Forbrich wrote:
                      ...
                      As for the mindless OCM reminders and viral ccr, that's easy enough to fix. Install XE on a stoopid site, add a gmail id as the user, and enable CCR. That way they are happy, the information is innocuous, the beast is fed even though it's chopped liver, and the reminders are gone.
                      That's a nice workaround for sure, as you explained in of your blog's entries. But that's not always applicable in every company, especially where there are very disctinct departments to manage servers, db, network, MOS access and so on...
                      Sounds like intra-compamy politics to me. I wonder whether it is fair to blame Oracle for not accommodating politics. ;-)

                      Seriously - I do think the constant OCM nag and related messages and idiocy are ... well, idiocy and arrogance on Oracle Support side. The only way I can see that being changed is if every paying customer sent a signed letter to Larry indicating displeasure.

                      Obviously blogs and notes in Communities do not work. And discussing it here does not either.
                      • 53. Re: Why is Oracle Support so Bad?
                        Chris Slattery
                        Hans you seem to leap on every post criticising MOS here with an instant rejoinder.

                        Do you have any specific mission in this regard ?


                        I've deliberately gone without posting on MOS here for a month or two to give it some sustained usage without leaping back here to complain repeatedly. I have to say it has not been a pleasant journey.

                        Chris.
                        • 54. Re: Why is Oracle Support so Bad?
                          jgarry
                          Hans Forbrich wrote:
                          jgarry wrote:
                          If you think mindless reminders to enable OCM, flash, software that loses posts, mindless reminders to submit RDA's, viral ccr that violates the most basic security, etc etc is moving forward, we better spin you around and stand you on your head! :-)
                          LOL.

                          I agree those are NOT the areas that are moving forward. I have, and still do, complain about those specific issues.
                          And I salute and support you for doing so.

                          >
                          However, there are a number of items I have written about - go ahead an read my blog or read my comments in the communities if you want to know which ones. And SOME (not all) have been addressed.

                          I have to admit I am surprised that your posts are missing. None of mine have disappeared. And Kathryn's posts and commentary ("enough is enough, when is Metalink coming back?") are still there.
                          Not so much missing (of course, there's the old posts which I wasn't referring to, but I would like them to reappear), but rather, they don't post. This has happened repeatedly and recently, the one that really ticked me off was a detailed reply to Warticki, I let the thing spin for a couple of hours, never got posted.

                          >
                          As for the mindless OCM reminders and viral ccr, that's easy enough to fix. Install XE on a stoopid site, add a gmail id as the user, and enable CCR. That way they are happy, the information is innocuous, the beast is fed even though it's chopped liver, and the reminders are gone.
                          And as a recent rant on cdos points out, any patch reinstalls it, you really have to pay attention. Personally, I don't trust gmail and don't want to be associated with it, it is a fount of spam these days.
                          • 55. Re: Why is Oracle Support so Bad?
                            Hans Forbrich
                            Chris Slattery wrote:
                            Hans you seem to leap on every post criticising MOS here with an instant rejoinder.

                            Do you have any specific mission in this regard ?
                            My mission is simple - get people to complain where it counts. Here in OTN is not the place. In the MOS communities, or better in the Board Room IS where it counts.

                            So I deride, laugh, cajole, and use whatever other technique I can to encourage people to place their criticism where is can be effective.

                            >
                            >
                            I've deliberately gone without posting on MOS here for a month or two to give it some sustained usage without leaping back here to complain repeatedly. I have to say it has not been a pleasant journey.
                            Nor for me. I think it's all the more reason to keep this forum free of that pain.
                            • 56. Re: Why is Oracle Support so Bad?
                              Hans Forbrich
                              jgarry wrote:
                              Not so much missing (of course, there's the old posts which I wasn't referring to, but I would like them to reappear), but rather, they don't post. This has happened repeatedly and recently, the one that really ticked me off was a detailed reply to Warticki, I let the thing spin for a couple of hours, never got posted.
                              Happened to me once in F-MOS. Then again, there is almost no browser-based input system where something like this has not happened to me. I've seen it in Forums, in Google Groups, various wikis, and so on, and suspect it's just a symptom of the workaround for having a stateless infrastructure.

                              >
                              >>
                              As for the mindless OCM reminders and viral ccr, that's easy enough to fix. Install XE on a stoopid site, add a gmail id as the user, and enable CCR. That way they are happy, the information is innocuous, the beast is fed even though it's chopped liver, and the reminders are gone.
                              And as a recent rant on cdos points out, any patch reinstalls it, you really have to pay attention.
                              Haven't had that happen. Unless we are talking about different things.

                              I'm talking about the "you should be using OCM 'cause you'll really enjoy it (just like garlic ice cream)" nag screen on the dashboard at MOS. Done a number of patches on my system and still no nag screen.

                              Personally, I don't trust gmail and don't want to be associated with it, it is a fount of spam these days.
                              Irrelevant to my thesis - pick your favorite email target, create a dummy and ignore it.
                              • 57. Re: Why is Oracle Support so Bad?
                                user649511
                                Hans, I agree that maybe the MOS communities is a valid place to voice thoughts but comments made inside of MOS I believe will only be between Oracle and customers paying for support. I tend to think that comments that can be picked up by Google and other forms of media are also important so that others are aware. You mention internal IT discussions and such but what about media such as CIO magazine that reference open communications about these issues. This too gives a lot of exposure to upper management that may even be more effecitive than internal IT complaints. CIO's, CEO's, etc pay the bills for this support so I think it is good to have exposure to what MOS has done to our support level in that manner as well. In fact, in many companies these types of publications probably have more weight than internal complaints. I know for sure my companies upper management never has, and never will, monitor the MOS communities or even this forum but be assured they read publications aimed at them and they are very aware of what they pay for Oracle support. Just my 2 cents.
                                • 58. Re: Why is Oracle Support so Bad?
                                  6363
                                  Agreed. Discussions on a public forum may help those who do not have support consider whether it would be worthwhile paying for it if they have some idea of what they are letting themselves in for.

                                  Obviously since these are Oracle forums they have a choice in the content and if they feel the criticisms are not warranted they could take action to remove that content, but I think if they were to do that for valid criticisms it would backfire and could get picked up by the tech press again.
                                  • 59. Re: Why is Oracle Support so Bad?
                                    jgarry
                                    Hans Forbrich wrote:
                                    jgarry wrote:
                                    Not so much missing (of course, there's the old posts which I wasn't referring to, but I would like them to reappear), but rather, they don't post. This has happened repeatedly and recently, the one that really ticked me off was a detailed reply to Warticki, I let the thing spin for a couple of hours, never got posted.
                                    Happened to me once in F-MOS. Then again, there is almost no browser-based input system where something like this has not happened to me. I've seen it in Forums, in Google Groups, various wikis, and so on, and suspect it's just a symptom of the workaround for having a stateless infrastructure.
                                    Yeah, how 'bout that, nobody gets transactional logic right with stateless infrastructure. Why don't we just base our whole economy on that?

                                    >
                                    >>
                                    >>>
                                    As for the mindless OCM reminders and viral ccr, that's easy enough to fix. Install XE on a stoopid site, add a gmail id as the user, and enable CCR. That way they are happy, the information is innocuous, the beast is fed even though it's chopped liver, and the reminders are gone.
                                    And as a recent rant on cdos points out, any patch reinstalls it, you really have to pay attention.
                                    Haven't had that happen. Unless we are talking about different things.

                                    I'm talking about the "you should be using OCM 'cause you'll really enjoy it (just like garlic ice cream)" nag screen on the dashboard at MOS. Done a number of patches on my system and still no nag screen.
                                    I'm talking about the ccr that gets installed on your actual production. I'm not convinced it is a good idea to send fake data into the real support system. I'm probably not understanding something, are you saying that if I register MOS under abc@mycompany.com, I can tell support to look at fusupport@gmail.com for purposes of the nag screen when I log in as abc@mycompany.com? I missed how to do that.

                                    >
                                    >
                                    Personally, I don't trust gmail and don't want to be associated with it, it is a fount of spam these days.
                                    Irrelevant to my thesis - pick your favorite email target, create a dummy and ignore it.
                                    Well, besides the above un-understanding, I don't have an out-of-company XE I can use for the company. Oh wait, cloud computing, use free services to fake out Oracle services... :-)