9 Replies Latest reply: Dec 19, 2003 2:38 AM by 225058 RSS

    Speed of Web-Based Developer Suite 9i compared to other Web technologies.

    407258
      i want to know the speed of Web-Based Developer Suite 9i compared to other Web technologies. Is a website made using HTML, ASP & Javascript faster than the Forms URL usin Developer Suite 9i? Please help in resolving the problem.

      regards.
        • 1. Re: Speed of Web-Based Developer Suite 9i compared to other Web technologies.
          Frank Nimphius-Oracle
          Hi,


          as usual, it depends. Generally speaking the HTML, ASP, Javascript page loads faster and produces less traffic.

          You cannot really compare this kind of technology with Forms because Forms is a rich client that is better compared to with Java Applets. In this case Forms is more efficient and possibly faster.

          I want to leave Javascript out of the equation as this is just a band aid for the absence of real client functionality in HTML / ASP applications. it gives you an impresion of interactive forms but in the end is more a burden than a help.

          The business application is what should drive the technology used. If you are building an online order and reservation system for theatre tickets then this is best build using thin client (HTML) technologies (I don't like ASP, so lets say JSP or UIX ;-) ).

          If the application is one that an employee works the whole day with and that requires client and server side integration, then Forms is an excellent choice and performance is not an issue either.

          Frank
          • 2. Re: Speed of Web-Based Developer Suite 9i compared to other Web technologies.
            Grant Ronald-Oracle
            Frank has got it spot on - if you are going to compare; then compare like with like.

            A Java application/applet (regardless if it is Forms or not) has a level of functionality that a JSP or HTML application cannot (natively) do. But that functionality requires code (which is often downloaded to the client).

            Web deployed Forms has been around for about 6-7 years so we have had many iterations to make sure we get it working as well as we can (and we are still make more improvements) so I'm more than happy to compare Web deployed Forms but make sure you are looking at the big picture and not only one small criteria.

            Regards
            Grant Ronald
            Forms Product Management
            • 3. Re: Speed of Web-Based Developer Suite 9i compared to other Web technologies.
              225058
              Frank,Grant,
              Forms is very great to build applications.
              but regarding to web technologies and java and what all papers says about ehance forms whith java, there is a little question regarding Forms/Java/OAS10g/BPM/SOA/Web services etc ...
              My question is :
              Forms is yet not multi- threading, you can process transactions but not react on events. If you want to be informed of database changes (in a supervision forms for example) you must act whith timer-expired which costs a lot network traffic.
              What is the best practice ? AQ JMS web services? Is there a chance to have improvement of forms like a forms adaptater for AQ like i read there will be an OAS adapter for AQ ?
              And make forms interact with others applications by sending and receiving "live" events?

              My opinion is that the need of a multi-threaded forms will grow up as the application needs more and more to be real-time, like spoken in the thread "
              replace repeating timer/ javabean with JDBC connection, multi- threading ".

              Thanks a lot for feedback.
              Jean-Yves

              • 4. Re: Speed of Web-Based Developer Suite 9i compared to other Web technologies.
                Grant Ronald-Oracle
                First point - this is really a new thread.

                Second point
                "If you want to be informed of database changes (in a supervision forms for example) you must act whith timer-expired which costs a lot network traffic"

                this is not true - this used to be the way of doing it in client server but the web gives you more options).

                You can use Java Beans to react to events - check out http://otn.oracle.com/products/forms/pdf/275199.pdf

                Third point - we have been talking alot about our plans for beyond 10g (Oracle World San Francisco, UKOUG, ODTUG, Oracle World Paris, Forms Developer Day Workshops) and here we mention that we are looking at AQ integration as a feature - so this should meet your requirements as well.

                Hope that addresses eveything.
                Regards
                Grant Ronald
                Forms Product Management
                • 5. Re: Speed of Web-Based Developer Suite 9i compared to other Web technologies.
                  225058
                  Hi Grant,
                  Sorry for the way my post turns to a new thread.
                  I'll post a new one.
                  Jean-Yves
                  • 6. Re: Speed of Web-Based Developer Suite 9i compared to other Web technologies.
                    Frank Nimphius-Oracle
                    Jean-Yves,

                    on a point where I think you are wrong: The timoutPJC that we provide as an example on OTN uses a Java Bean that runs in its own thread. So the argument that Forms doesn't support multiple threads doesn't hold.

                    I know the other discussions you have on OTN and know that you are seeking for AQ support. However, beside of the material we pointed you too, the best integration to AQ would be on the server side, and not on the client, to avoid additional round trips.

                    Fyi, We have plans for a feature that allows Java that is called from Forms using the server side Java Importer to call back into Forms. This, if being asynchronous, sounds like a better opportunity to integrate with AQ. Unfortunately I don't have a release date as it is on the list and not yet worked on.


                    Fran
                    • 7. Re: Speed of Web-Based Developer Suite 9i compared to other Web technologies.
                      225058
                      Frank,
                      I know the timoutPJC and all your helpfull samples.
                      Thanks again for your work.

                      The goal as I explain is to refresh screen when there are databases changes and process a workflow trough all departments involved in this process without executing query every "n" times.

                      I found on this forum the activedb document and your "old but still true 275199.pdf" and go to see how to integrate AQ whith forms.

                      We are working on it at this time.
                      I am not particulary seeking for AQ support.I just have to make decision on "how-to" and therefore I'm looking at the forum for all good experiences in a similar need.

                      AQ seems to be a good way to achieve that.

                      It is also a good thing for us that you or Grant give us view of features you are looking for forms (even if it is not to take as the next patchset), because we want to be as close as possible from the Oracle Products features.

                      Jean-Yves
                      • 8. Re: Speed of Web-Based Developer Suite 9i compared to other Web technologies.
                        Grant Ronald-Oracle
                        "It is also a good thing for us that you or Grant give us view of features you are looking for forms "

                        I know not everyone can make them but we have been talking about the 10g and beyond features at events such as Oracle World (San Francisco and Paris), the UKOUG, ODTUG, Forms Developer Days,.....

                        Maybe its worth contacting your local Oracle User Group and asking for these kinds of presentations.
                        HOpe this helps.
                        Grant
                        • 9. Re: Speed of Web-Based Developer Suite 9i compared to other Web technologies.
                          225058
                          Thanks Grant,
                          I will take a look at ukoug or oug in france if there is one(i think yes but not verified).
                          Jean-Yves