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12 Replies Latest reply: Jun 7, 2010 1:48 PM by 843851 RSS

About MHP... few questions

843851 Newbie
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Hi, i have few questions about MHP:
1/ When are we going to move the MHP 1.1 ? is it in a near future? Who is currently using it?

2/ What is the overall MHP market share in Europe ? I mean the amount of MHP boxes compared to all possible digibox on the market? Where can i find such information ?

3/ about conditional access: Which MHP STB support Smartcard, i actually never saw any MHP STB with smartcard.
Login/password is also a possible security access, do you see any other method to identify the user?

4/ About the future of MHP STB: are we going to see boxes with USB,bluetooth supports...?
larger persistent and reliable storage ?

thank you very much

best regards
Seb
  • 1. Re: About MHP... few questions
    843851 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    1) Probably not any time soon. Until there is a reliable test suite for MHP 1.1, it's impossible to ensure that any MHP 1.1 implementation actually meets the spec. There are also interoperability issues that will need working on, and which will not be covered by the test suite. DVB are working on an MHP 1.1 test suite, which is due in early 2006 if I remember correctly, but there will still be a lot of work needed even after the test suite is availalbe.

    Add to that the fact that there's not much real demand for MHP 1.1 at the moment. The Italian MHP profile uses the smart card API from MHP 1.2, and that seems to be the biggest thing that people wanted. DVB-HTML is still a mess, and so most people are using a downloaded microbrowser and some flavor of HTML 4 or XHTML.

    This is, of course, just my opinion.

    2) I don't know exact figures, but I was talking ot one of the Italian broadcasters a few weeks ago anfd they were prety positive. They said that something like 3 million MHP boxes had been shipped in Italy. This is a pretty good number, but it's still nowhere near some of the non-MHP systems out there (BSkyB in the UK for instance have ~8 million deployments, and Freeview have about 4 million). Unless you're willing to pay one of the market research companies for their reports in this area, I doubt that you would get an idea of the overall market share in Europe, but DVB publish a report that gives numbers for MHP deployments worldwide. This is available from http://www.mhp.org/about_mhp/who_is_using_mhp/index.xml (see the MHP Update link).

    3) Most of the Italian MHP boxes support smart cards, but these are more for pay-TV access via pre-paid cards. It would be possible to extend these to normal subscription services, but there is no demand at the moment from the broadcasters. Integrating this into MHP is no more difficult than integrating it in to any other middleware stack, so there are no technical problems doing this. Apart from using the smart card and using passwords, I don't know of any other really reliable ways for user authentication.

    Steve.
  • 2. Re: About MHP... few questions
    843851 Newbie
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    Hi ,

    First of all i would like to wish you guys an happy new year, all the best for 2006.

    Would it be possible to autenthicate a STB based on the return channel ?
    Would it be possible to get information from the STB chip (EPROM or whatever) using other languages C or C++ ?
    How can i get the MAC address of the return channel?

    thanks a lot

    sebastien
  • 3. Re: About MHP... few questions
    843851 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    And a happy new year to you. To answer your questions:

    1) Not directly based on the return channel. Using a username/password/PIN is still the easiest way to do this

    2) Not in any kind of interoperable way (and not without support from hte middleware vendor & STB manufacturer). This would require platform-specific extensions to MHP, and so it's not a practical idea for wide deployments.

    3) You can't. There is no guarantee that the return channel will even have a MAC address - for instance, connecting with PPP over a PSTN modem).

    Probably not the answers you were hoping for, unfortunately.

    Steve.
  • 4. Re: About MHP... few questions
    843851 Newbie
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    Hi,

    I have an ADB box MHP Receiver T75-DEV with OCF smartcard and MHP 1.0.3.
    Would it be possible to use OCF from an MHP application?
    How hard would it be to change the MHP stack so that it support smartcard(smartcard is said to be supported by MHP 1.1 but not MHP 1.0.3 i guess)?


    thanks a lot

    sebastien
  • 5. Re: About MHP... few questions
    843851 Newbie
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    Hi Seb,
    2/ What is the overall MHP market share in Europe ? I mean the
    amount of MHP boxes compared to all possible digibox on the
    market?
    There are only three countries in europe, where regular services in MHP exist: Italy, Finland and Germany.

    Italy: up to mid of 2005 2.2Mio. Boxes with MHP (only DVB-T) where sold.
    Finland: 50.000 Boxes with MHP are on the market.

    Germany: 20.6% of all households (=7.2Mio.) have at least one digital receiver (cable, terrestric and sat, see: http://www.agf.de/daten/zuschauermarkt/digitaltv)
    The GfK (Gesellschaft f�r Konsumforschung), Germanys largest institute for investigating consumer-behaviour, isn't able to give a correct number for the percentage of MHP-Boxes, because there are too little Boxes on the market, the number would be "statistical noise". Therefore it is numeralized with <0.1% (= < 7000 Boxes). I got this information from an acquaintance working for GfK, it is nowhere published.

    With the beginning of 2006 the private TV-Station RTL stopped their broadcasting of MHP "until the market-conditions for interactive TV will change". Right now only the public Broadcasters ARD and ZDF are broadcasting MHP-applications.
    In Media-Shops STB's with MHP are no longer offered since one year.
    It doesn't look very good for MHP in Germany. In my opinion MHP was introduced too early with not accurately working STBs/applications and too little broadcasters supporting MHP. In 2001/2 an inflation of prophecies concerning MHP flooded the german press (SMS, e-government, e-learning, e-banking), none of these promises cood be fulfilled, so the potential customers lost their interest.
    Where can i find such information ?
    I got the information about Finland and Italy from http://www.mhp-knowledgebase.org/publ/mhp-kdb_d1-ver-2.pdf (Report documenting the current situation of MHP usage)

    Greetings

    k.lauer
  • 6. Re: About MHP... few questions
    843851 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    Hi,

    thanks a lot fot the information:

    I have an ADB box MHP Receiver T75-DEV with OCF smartcard and MHP 1.0.3.
    Would it be possible to use OCF from an MHP application?
    How hard would it be to change the MHP stack so that it support smartcard(smartcard is said to be supported by MHP 1.1 but not MHP 1.0.3 i guess)?

    regards
    sebastien
  • 7. Re: About MHP... few questions
    843851 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    It should be possible to use the OCF from an MHP application, but I've never used that particular developer box and so I can't be sure.

    Changing the MHP stack really depends on who is doing the changes - for a middleware manufacturer, it's probably not too hard - there will be an internal smart card API anyway (possibly in native code) and so adding a smart card APi on top of this is relatively straightforward. Most of the complexity is introducted by the smart card API itself (OCF is very complicated - this is one of the factors that led to it being replaced by a subset of the SATSA API in MHP 1.1.2).

    For an application developer, there is no practical way of adding smart card support to a middleware stack that doesn't have it.

    Steve.
  • 8. Re: About MHP... few questions
    843851 Newbie
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    I like the idea of the username and password. But how do I get the username and password stored in the STB? Is there a virable defined in the MHP specs of which I get the value?

    Thanks for help!
  • 9. Re: About MHP... few questions
    843851 Newbie
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    "There are only three countries in europe, where regular services in MHP exist: Italy, Finland and Germany."

    In Flanders(Belgium) Telenet is also using MHP for it's DVB-C Set-top boxes.
  • 10. Re: About MHP... few questions
    843851 Newbie
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    In Flanders(Belgium) Telenet is also using MHP for it's DVB-C Set-top boxes.
    One can read this in several newsletters. But actually they are only selling a MHP-Box (from ADB), but no interactive Services are distributed. They plan to do so.
  • 11. Re: About MHP... few questions
    843851 Newbie
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    In Flanders(Belgium) Telenet is also using MHP for
    it's DVB-C Set-top boxes.

    One can read this in several newsletters. But
    actually they are only selling a MHP-Box (from ADB),
    but no interactive Services are distributed. They
    plan to do so.
    Have a look at these apps:

    http://televisie.telenet.be/nl/digital_tv/interactie_communicatie/interactie.html
  • 12. Re: About MHP... few questions
    843851 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    The link has changed: http://telenet.be/337/0/1/nl/thuis/televisie/voordelen%20digitale%20tv/interactieve%20diensten.html
    Those MHP apps are in production since 2004~2005.