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      • 75. Re: Getting the splash screen a LOT today
        Dude!?
        Perhaps an interesting document regarding Ranking Mechanisms in Twitter and other social forums.

        http://research.yahoo.com/files/wsdm357-dassarma.pdf

        Some extracts:

        Ranking has become an important issue not just in web search but also in forums, blogs and social networks such as twitter. While there has been a large body of research on ranking for web search, there is little systematic study of
        ranking in the aforementioned forums.


        The popular methods for rankings in forums include “star ratings”, “thumbs up-down ratings”, and “reputation points”. These ranking methods suffer from a few drawbacks.

        (1) Generally, they aid in the “rich gets richer phenomena” – the items that get rated a few times often end up being displayed on top thereby receiving more impressions and ratings; because of the large volume in most sites, other
        potentially good items often never recieve any ratings.

        (2) Giving an item a score (thumbs up or down), independent of other items results in unnormalized scores; We shall show that such an independent scoring usually needs a lot of feedback before converging to accurate rankings.

        (3) In the absence of any incentives, it is impractical to expect all users to participate in the feedback process; At the same time, absence of any feedback results in user dissatisfaction, as items largely go without any rating. Therefore, appropriate incentive/reward systems coupled with user feedback are key to the efficiency and effectiveness of a rating mechanism.

        Conclusion:

        Star-ratings are a clear generalization of thumb-based ratings, and our theoretical analysis can be easily extended to star-ratings: Intuitively a rating of 3 stars out of 5 is roughly
        like getting 3 thumbs-ups and 2 thumbs-downs. Analogously, pairwise comparisons can be generalized ton-way comparisons, but the theory doesn’t directly carry over. Although the practicality of n-way comparisons is questionable as they may impose a more significant reviewing burden on users, their theoretical study would be interesting.

        Edited by: waldorfm on Oct 22, 2010 4:51 AM
        • 76. Re: Getting the splash screen a LOT today
          Billy~Verreynne
          Interesting stuff. So what do you reckon is appropriate to OTN forums?

          IMO, the best is not scoring system of any kind at all. This remove any and all ambiguity from a thread and places the onus on the reader to read the entire thread, think and process the information provided, and even research the findings/suggestions/recommendations/opinions on offer, and thus do his/her own private scoring of sorts of the responses in the thread.
          • 77. Re: Getting the splash screen a LOT today
            darrylburke
            Billy  Verreynne  wrote:
            So you're saying that the JQuery plugin does not help with weightloss? :D
            :D
            • 78. Re: Getting the splash screen a LOT today
              darrylburke
              Re- Ranking: The only "Best Answer" I got on on Yahoo! Answers:
              http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100915162844AARYRH3

              db
              • 79. Re: Getting the splash screen a LOT today
                SomeoneElse
                IMO, the best is not scoring system of any kind at all.
                Agreed.
                • 80. Re: Getting the splash screen a LOT today
                  jgarry
                  "A mathematician is someone who thinks x is a number."

                  Smileys and Calculus together at last! Thanks for that! :D

                  I agree with Billy, no ranking would be best for these fora.
                  • 81. Re: Getting the splash screen a LOT today
                    jgarry
                    Billy  Verreynne  wrote:
                    Joel. I do not really agree with your analysis because of one factor - indifference. A quintessential human characteristic. Most here will simply not care about upvoting or downvoting a posting (unless there is a personal and non-technical issue at hand).

                    Those who will vote will be the ones that are regulars here and not indifferent - and who want to see that the correct and relevant responses are prominent in a thread.
                    But we still have the problem here of people who are less qualified and not indifferent far outnumbering people who are more qualified and not indifferent. And it could be simply a waste of time for the most qualified. Unless a qualification weighting were involved, which might bring in the ego problem as people want to get weighty. You know, people with a couple years experience who think they know everything, or some of those arrogant MS experts or whatever they call themselves - the people who care more about points.

                    >
                    It is also a much better approach at "+scoring+" as it removes the scoring of responses from a single person looking for an answer, to a wider audience of people that are (mostly) looking at providing accurate and relevant answers.
                    Good point.

                    >
                    Also, it removes the "+ego factor+" as scoring is no longer about a person collecting personal reward points, but postings collecting upvotes/downvotes for accuracy. In other words, no longer about scoring an individual, but scoring answers.
                    I wonder how good the scoring can be, since it nearly always is over-distilling a qualitative judgment (how good is this answer) to a single quantitative score (no "it depends" allowed). Just like "if it were so simple, the db would do it for you." In simple cases, it can. It doesn't take many variables to be too complex for that.

                    I think we may be dancing around a more fundamental point, which is this is a type of social network, with all that implies, including not having technical perfection as a main goal. Which also applies more generally to Oracle as a business, the main goal is, of course, points in the form of money or growth. Whether twitter, blogs, forums, the stock market or whatever, this tension exists, us technical people want a goal which gets lost in the medium.
                    • 82. Re: Getting the splash screen a LOT today
                      Dude!?
                      Assuming that fancy icons and aces will disappear when the scoring systems gets removed, some may benefit as it will hide statistics with a relative small amount of positive feedback. Some forums seem to be much less rewarding than others. And on the other hand, I read that in order to become an ACE, one should help others only for the sake of helping and not aim at the score. Perhaps there is simply too much space left after reaching a Guru status.

                      In my opinion a reward system is necessary. Each person may have their own intentions or objections, and it certainly cannot be a universal every time perfect judgement, but over time, it will show answer statistics that reflect the overall quality of someone's answers relative to others. I think this is an important indicator, and collecting scores can be fun too. Without a scoring system, I would be afraid that over time, the professional and technical level of these forums will degrade.

                      My suggestions are as following:

                      I do not think the current reward system is wrong. Changing the current star based reward system to a up or down voting system will probably not change much. A negative affect of a voting system can be that posts receive more votes simply because more votes bring them more into focus.

                      I think it would help if the system would send the original poster a reminder that a thread has been inactive for a while, but is still open or that answers have not been rewarded when a thread was closed. Every answer should be mandatory for reward when a thread is closed. Perhaps such statistics could be shown in a separate window. For this it might be necessary to introduce a "undecided" reward option.

                      There are currently no more reward options left after becoming a Guru and there might me more talent left. How about additional titles, icons, or how about Oracle giving people score based rewards, such as, free access to metalink, a thanks letter from the Oracle CEO, free training at Oracle. I'm sure there are many ideas.

                      Edited by: waldorfm on Oct 23, 2010 1:10 PM
                      • 83. Re: Getting the splash screen a LOT today
                        munky
                        I don't know why we all keep making these 'suggestions', as no one ever seems to respond to or action them...

                        Either way, it's a weird one! I know that if Frank Kulash answers something on the PL/SQL forum - I will probably learn something, if Aketi responds to a post - he has probably come up with I solution that had never occurred to me, if Blu answers a question - he's probably right, if Billy responds to something - I'll get to read something informative with a hint of humour and disdain. I don't need icons to know this, it's just the way things are. I think that the 'status' symbols are of more benefit to someone new to the forums in a sort of 'this person's been helpful alot here so they might actually know something' kind of way.

                        To be honest, I just don't care that much. I make my own judgment of people here. Jonathan Lewis doesn't have a 'guru' status FFS! (why the hell isn't he an ACE by the way?)

                        At the moment, I'm acting as the technical reviewer for 2 books and co-authoring another as well as being contracted full-time, I don't have the time to be here notching up points. Does that make my effectiveness to the APEX community any less? Nope. Someone could easily hang around the DB General forum, with no real clue about what they're talking about and achieve 'guru' status - are they a leader in their field? Nope.

                        So I think that Billy's and Joel's ideas are 'correct'. It should not be about the individual but about the answer itself. The forum should be a repository of helpful information rather than a social network where people can upgrade their status. Having said that, I have quite a lot of fun here 'chatting'. It is a community and I would be happy to meet many of the people here face to face and grab them a pint, but my decision as to whether they deserved one or not would come from the quality of their responses rather than the colour of their turnip (I'm getting a bit Martin Luther King now...).

                        Anyone coming to UKOUG???

                        Cheers

                        Ben
                        • 84. Re: Getting the splash screen a LOT today
                          Hoek
                          (why the hell isn't he an ACE by the way?)
                          Good and sound question.

                          One can nominate here: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/community/index-083638.html
                          • 85. Re: Getting the splash screen a LOT today
                            munky
                            hoek wrote:
                            (why the hell isn't he an ACE by the way?)
                            Good and sound question.

                            One can nominate here: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/community/index-083638.html
                            I will, I think you should too! :)
                            • 86. Re: Getting the splash screen a LOT today
                              Nicolas Gasparotto
                              Munky wrote:
                              hoek wrote:
                              (why the hell isn't he an ACE by the way?)
                              Good and sound question.

                              One can nominate here: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/community/index-083638.html
                              I will, I think you should too! :)
                              Because he's already an Ace Director, but somehow his profile does not reflect that status.
                              See those two links :
                              http://apex.oracle.com/pls/otn/f?p=19297:4:2021266953717340::NO:4:P4_ID:1460
                              http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/2010/09/19/index-degeneration/ (the comments)

                              Nicolas.
                              • 87. Re: Getting the splash screen a LOT today
                                Pinbreaker
                                I don't know why we all keep making these 'suggestions', as no one ever seems to respond to or action them...
                                Billy asked what my conclusion was.
                                I think that the 'status' symbols are of more benefit to someone new to the forums in a sort of 'this person's been helpful alot here so they might actually know something' kind of way.
                                Status symbols? But even then, I don't see what's wrong with it.
                                At the moment, I'm acting as the technical reviewer for 2 books and co-authoring another as well as being contracted full-time, I don't have the time to be here notching up points.
                                Well, good for you.
                                Someone could easily hang around the DB General forum, with no real clue about what they're talking about and achieve 'guru' status - are they a leader in their field? Nope.
                                Fine with me, I don't care. I'm not addicted to the forums, yet. What about your Guru status, does that mean anything?
                                So I think that Billy's and Joel's ideas are 'correct'. It should not be about the individual but about the answer itself. The forum should be a repository of helpful information rather than a social
                                network where people can upgrade their status.
                                That's too much mind reading for me. Can you get a lot of points with stupid answers? It is not necessarily about status, but appreciation, and I don't think that's wrong. If someone doesn't care about their forum statistics, why not ignore it? Perhaps there could be an option in each user profile whether or not to hide personal forum statistics and icon. One can also stay anonymous, if one wishes to do so.

                                I have been seeing plenty of posts in these forums that I would consider cynical or rude, and in my perception its always coming from people who have been making n unusual amount of posts. Perhaps there is a certain level of frustration and indifference growing towards questions and suggestions with the number of posts.

                                Anyway, I'm not trying to force any change or convince anybody, but if someone asks my opinion....

                                Edited by: 804777 on Oct 24, 2010 8:36 AM

                                Btw, something still seems wrong with the forum software, this was posted under 804777 ?!
                                • 88. Re: Getting the splash screen a LOT today
                                  munky
                                  >
                                  Billy asked what my conclusion was.
                                  >
                                  Okay, 804777.
                                  >
                                  Status symbols? But even then, I don't see what's wrong with it.
                                  >
                                  They're turnips
                                  >
                                  Well, good for you.
                                  >
                                  Cheers.
                                  >
                                  Fine with me, I don't care. I'm not addicted to the forums, yet. What about your Guru status, does that mean anything?
                                  >
                                  No.
                                  >
                                  That's too much mind reading for me. Can you get a lot of points with stupid answers?
                                  >
                                  Yes.
                                  >
                                  in my perception its always coming from people who have been making n unusual amount of posts.
                                  >
                                  You missed an 'a' out
                                  >
                                  Btw, something still seems wrong with the forum software, this was posted under 804777 ?!
                                  >
                                  That's because it's crap.
                                  >
                                  One can also stay anonymous, if one wishes to do so.
                                  >
                                  True.

                                  Cheers

                                  Ben
                                  • 89. Re: Getting the splash screen a LOT today
                                    Hoek
                                    Just got home, reading OTN updates now
                                    Because he's already an Ace Director, but somehow his profile does not reflect that status.
                                    Oh, well, no need to nominate Jonathan, then ;)
                                    Should have thought about checking that ACE(D) list...
                                    Weird though, that his profile is not in sync...
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