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Instructor led course requirement??

870083
870083 Member Posts: 30
Hi,

Is Oracle trying to mess up Java just like it did OpenOffice??

I was planning to go for the Java Developer certification in the near future but if it requires one of those courses I just can't...

I bought self study stuff from Sun before which was good and useful but the instructor stuff is just way too expensive! Plus I don't like short intense courses like that, I've done them before and you can't really do/learn enough in that amount of time, I prefer to learn at my own pace around other things so I learn it long term not just short.

It really does annoy me that they have pretty much denied me to do it now. I don't work in the industry so I don't get these things paid for me, its something I do around my job to build my knowledge and experience up to possibly do it as a primary thing or incorparate it in my area of work.

I have passed SCJP before the whole Oracle thing and things where much better than, RIP Sun....

Does anyone else feel the same? Is there no way around this?
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Answers

  • YoungWinston
    YoungWinston Member Posts: 4,310
    edited Jun 23, 2011 6:51AM
    Technical wrote:
    Does anyone else feel the same?
    Yup. Oracle cash-grab; certificates for the rich. Par for the course, according to my friend (who's an Oracle DBA).
    Is there no way around this?
    Not from them; I already checked (I was interested in doing the S(O)CJD certification; but not if it's going to cost me the best part of 3 grand). You may find it spawns some other, cheaper certification courses though. The IBM website might be a place to look.

    Winston

    Edited by: YoungWinston on Jun 23, 2011 12:51 PM
    YoungWinston
  • gimbal2
    gimbal2 Member Posts: 11,949 Gold Trophy
    edited Jun 23, 2011 6:52AM
    Technical wrote:
    Does anyone else feel the same? Is there no way around this?
    Don't do the actual exams? Seriously, whats the point if a company doesn't demand the certificate? You like to collect certificates?

    In any case, I can somewhere understand that Oracle lays down that requirement; that way cheats have less of a chance to get the paper because they have to throw lots of money at even being allowed to take the exam. And you make more money in the process, which will always be the driving force behind Oracle.

    As I said, the only real use to doing the exams is when a company demands you get the paper; if you want to prove to yourself that you have a grip on the course material, create something useful using it and show that around!
  • 870083
    870083 Member Posts: 30
    Thanks alot for the reply!
    I'm glad I'm not the only one because I only read it recently and I think its put the nail in the coffin for me as far as Oracle goes.

    Like you said its just a way for them to rake in the money.

    I hope the same happens to Oracle that happened to Sun!
  • gimbal2
    gimbal2 Member Posts: 11,949 Gold Trophy
    Technical wrote:
    Thanks alot for the reply!
    I hope the same happens to Oracle that happened to Sun!
    Be careful what you wish for. What can happen much sooner than Oracle failing is the fact that they dump Java; it is only anyone's guess what will happen with the platform when that happens. It might flourish, it might spiral out of control.

    Better let Oracle cash in and keep Java something that they can profit off without locking it down.
  • 870083
    870083 Member Posts: 30
    gimbal2 wrote:
    Technical wrote:
    Does anyone else feel the same? Is there no way around this?
    Don't do the actual exams? Seriously, whats the point if a company doesn't demand the certificate? You like to collect certificates?

    In any case, I can somewhere understand that Oracle lays down that requirement; that way cheats have less of a chance to get the paper because they have to throw lots of money at even being allowed to take the exam. And you make more money in the process, which will always be the driving force behind Oracle.

    As I said, the only real use to doing the exams is when a company demands you get the paper; if you want to prove to yourself that you have a grip on the course material, create something useful using it and show that around!
    Yes what you say is true but you could say that about any qualification like a degree and even though the point is recognision at the end the other thing you failed to mention is that qualifications/certifications give you structure, a goal to aim for and usually feedback in some form or another.

    Doing SCJP helped me alot for sure, it made me learn stuff that I wouldnt have and made me realise how much I know or don't. sure they aren't the ultimate measure of knowledge but when you don't work in the industry and you have no expert advice it can help alot still.

    I have made stuff but the problem is when you don't have real industry experience you do things in a very bad way often but you don't realise it. I know that for a fact with the area I work in with people just trying to have ago at it on there own.

    I wouldn't mind doing one of those courses if they didn't cost a bomb.
  • YoungWinston
    YoungWinston Member Posts: 4,310
    gimbal2 wrote:
    In any case, I can somewhere understand that Oracle lays down that requirement; that way cheats have less of a chance to get the paper because they have to throw lots of money at even being allowed to take the exam.
    I highly doubt that that has anything to do with it.
    And you make more money in the process...
    Bingo; except I suspect that this one may come back to bite them. Or maybe it's part of a larger plan to phase out certification altogether (I do like conspirancy theories, don't you?).
    which will always be the driving force behind Oracle.
    ...prove to yourself that you have a grip on the course material...
    which is tough to get without signing up for the course. Probably not impossible though.

    @OP: Another thing that occurred to me was to get a book on whichever course you were planning on taking. I was going to do a trawl myself. If I find something, I'll post back here; perhaps you could do likewise.

    Winston
  • 870083
    870083 Member Posts: 30
    gimbal2 wrote:
    Technical wrote:
    Thanks alot for the reply!
    I hope the same happens to Oracle that happened to Sun!
    Be careful what you wish for. What can happen much sooner than Oracle failing is the fact that they dump Java; it is only anyone's guess what will happen with the platform when that happens. It might flourish, it might spiral out of control.

    Better let Oracle cash in and keep Java something that they can profit off without locking it down.
    Yes you are right...
    I'm just glad Sun made it most of it Open source before this happened.
  • 870083
    870083 Member Posts: 30
    edited Jun 23, 2011 8:00AM
    YoungWinston wrote:
    gimbal2 wrote:
    In any case, I can somewhere understand that Oracle lays down that requirement; that way cheats have less of a chance to get the paper because they have to throw lots of money at even being allowed to take the exam.
    I highly doubt that that has anything to do with it.
    And you make more money in the process...
    Bingo; except I suspect that this one may come back to bite them. Or maybe it's part of a larger plan to phase out certification altogether (I do like conspirancy theories, don't you?).
    which will always be the driving force behind Oracle.
    ...prove to yourself that you have a grip on the course material...
    which is tough to get without signing up for the course. Probably not impossible though.

    @OP: Another thing that occurred to me was to get a book on whichever course you were planning on taking. I was going to do a trawl myself. If I find something, I'll post back here; perhaps you could do likewise.

    Winston
    Thanks alot, yes that would be good.
    I got a great book for the Netbeans certification and its been so helpful with learning all the ins and outs of Netbeans especially things like revision systems which I would have never learnt otherwise.

    I wanted to do Developer which I have never seen any good books except one which is old now. I really wanted to do it to see if I was capable of passing, even if I didn't pass I wanted to know what type of things it could involve in a real job. I thought it would give me a better taste for a challenge that didn't just involve building what I want to build and how I want to build it.

    the most efficient way to learn something is with some structure and not just messing around with it (although you need to do that too).

    EDIT: Winston, this is the book I was talking about for Developer:
    SCJD Exam with J2SE 5 2nd Edition
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/SCJD-Exam-J2SE-Experts-Voice/dp/1590595165/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1308830299&sr=8-7

    Thats the book I always come across and that I have seen being quoted alot.
    Its not upto date but its the only one that trys to take you through a project etc. so I guess its better than nothing.

    Edited by: Technical on 23-Jun-2011 04:58
  • YoungWinston
    YoungWinston Member Posts: 4,310
    edited Jun 23, 2011 8:20AM
    Technical wrote:
    EDIT: Winston, this is the book I was talking about for Developer:
    SCJD Exam with J2SE 5 2nd Edition
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/SCJD-Exam-J2SE-Experts-Voice/dp/1590595165/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1308830299&sr=8-7
    Thats the book I always come across and that I have seen being quoted alot.
    Its not upto date but its the only one that trys to take you through a project etc. so I guess its better than nothing.
    Oddly enough, I just ordered it; and was about to put it down in here. The customer reviews seem to be generally favourable (and there are 50-odd of them). Unfortunately, deliveries from the US take about a month to get here (Belgium), so I'll have a while to wait. What I'm hoping is that it'll give me some insights into developing a demo project of my own.

    Winston
  • gimbal2
    gimbal2 Member Posts: 11,949 Gold Trophy
    edited Jun 23, 2011 8:26AM
    Technical wrote:
    Yes you are right...
    I'm just glad Sun made it most of it Open source before this happened.
    That is true, although it only really benefits the development of the Sun implementation of the JVM. What I don't see happening very quickly is the JVM spreading to new platforms because it is open source; it is not only a complex piece of machinery, Oracle also has a nice legal department that seems to take an interest in Java popping up elsewhere without Oracle receiving a hefty license fee (Google Android being a prime example). That was no different in the time Sun reigned by the way.

    And I can see how certification is a way to get you to motivate you to reach goals. I just hope you can find other means of motivation as well, because software development is basically a continuous learning experience, no matter how many years of working experience you have. There is always a new trick around the corner to replace older ones.
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