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    SDE and Oracle Spatial

    3004
      Is anyone using SDE and Oracle Spatial with multiple front-end applications(ESRI,MapInfo,GeoMedia,Intergraph)successfully?

      Thanks,
      Matt
        • 1. SDE and Oracle Spatial
          3004
          We are trying to do this via the Object model. Progress is slow so far.
          • 2. SDE and Oracle Spatial
            3004
            We are starting to test it.
            We're using ArcSDE 8.0.2 on Oracle 8.1.6 with Oracle Spatial(Object Model).

            I saw this combination work on ESRI conference last summer.
            There were allso some impresive presentations of working prototypes. You can try and find them on ESRI website.

            Tilen.
            • 3. SDE and Oracle Spatial
              3004
              I did this pretty often when I worked for ESRI. We had AutoCAD, MicroStation, GeoMedia, ArcView, and ArcInfo editing the same data, and two ESRI internet applications serving the data. MapInfo should work as well, though I have not tested that.
              • 4. SDE and Oracle Spatial
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                <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matt:
                Is anyone using SDE and Oracle Spatial with multiple front-end applications(ESRI,MapInfo,GeoMedia,Intergraph)successfully?

                Thanks,
                Matt
                <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                We are working on using GeoMedia Pro and ArcInfo and SDE to edit the same data. Haven't got there yet.

                null
                • 5. SDE and Oracle Spatial
                  3004
                  Does anyone want to elaborate on the problems they are running into that make this difficult? Are the problems applications level issues, or are there issues in oracle spatial that make progress difficult?

                  Is there a checklist of potential gotchas that would make doing this easier for others?

                  Any feedback would be appreciated.

                  dan
                  • 6. SDE and Oracle Spatial
                    3004
                    We've built a system on top of Oracle Spatial using MapInfo 6 to edit the data and ESRI's ArcSDE and ArcIMS to distribute it to users in another city. (Don't ask why we use these two systems I think it was just to prove that we could).

                    The biggest issue we ran into whilst building the system was that MapInfo's EasyLoader inserted values for SRID's into the relevant places but the ESRI software didn't like this at all. We could register the layer in SDE but couldn't view it at any larger scale than the initial extents. The only way to fix the problem was to get rid of the Coordinate System information. Otherwise everything seems to be going well (I haven't had any complaints anyway)

                    We could have used other tools to load the data but we don't have the relevant version of FME and loading via SDE does some strange things to table structures (ie. it splits the spatial from the attribute data).

                    Anyway, here is the start of a list. What have others found?
                    null
                    • 7. SDE and Oracle Spatial
                      3004
                      We are an ESRI shop and are currently
                      running ArcSDE 8.0.2 against an Oracle
                      8.1.6 database (moving to 8.1.7 as soon
                      as possible).

                      We have a number of Oracle Spatial tables
                      which contain only points in the geometry
                      column. We update these tables via WebDB
                      because our users universally type in
                      northing/easting coordinates (previously
                      into spreadsheets and Access databases).
                      We use before insert/update triggers
                      to keep the geometry column in sync with
                      the typed in coordinates. Works like
                      a dream!

                      The only hassle we had with ArcSDE for
                      these tables is that while we can
                      'register' them with the SDE we cannot
                      grant users, other than the schema owner,
                      to 'see' these data. ArcSDE will not
                      honour Oracle grants and requires you
                      to execute their sde* utilities to
                      grant permissions. This was reported to
                      ESRI who confirmed it was a bug in ArcSDE
                      8.0.2 which has been fixed in 8.1 (still
                      in beta). So we have had to use workarounds
                      with views to enable other users to see the
                      data.

                      This is a constant problem with SDE (this is probably due to the fact that it
                      holds its own metadata) -- you often come
                      across situations where you can do one
                      thing in the DBMS which the ESRI software
                      doesn't like.... (cf someone else's posting
                      about coordinate refs..)

                      This leads us on to editing data which
                      is in Oracle spatial native format (ie
                      business table with geometry column).
                      Effectively, you CANNOT edit this data
                      with any of the ESRI front-end tools
                      because it is not supported in the ArcSDE
                      API. I don't think this is changing
                      at rev 8.1 because ESRI has implemented
                      its own versioning etc.

                      So when editing data in ESRI's products we
                      are forced to use ESRI's native multi-table
                      binary format. I have tried ESRI's hybrid
                      structure (business table + 'F' table with
                      geometry column) but ran into same
                      trouble with granting permissions
                      to any other user to 'see' the data either
                      for select/insert/update/delete... gave
                      up on that one too....

                      Like most users of ESRI software... we
                      live in hope!

                      But as a person with a long IT background
                      in databases (mainframes and Oracle) all
                      I can say is long live Oracle Spatial!!!!
                      I love it!

                      regards
                      Simon
                      null
                      • 8. SDE and Oracle Spatial
                        3004
                        To someone who is new in the whole GIS area, I'm interested, what does SDE give you that Oracle Spatial doesn't??? Is it just the GUI tools like ArcIMS or does it actually give you extra server-side functionality?

                        Thanks,
                        Andrew
                        null
                        • 9. SDE and Oracle Spatial
                          3004
                          Andrew:

                          If you are an "ESRI only" shop, the Oracle Spatial probably doesn't get you anything over what you'd get from ArcSDE. Your spatial data (i.e. location data) is stored in a propriatary binary format in a Oracle table, and you use ArcSDE's interfaces to get/put the data. However, if you want to use that spatial data for anything else (other app's, WWW stuff, etc), then you must write the code (with ESRI's API) needed to do the tasks.

                          If you are a multi-vendor shop, and want to maximize your data value, then you look to Oracle Spatial to house the data in an Oracle "format" that is accessible and useable by any app's that can hit against Oracle. Just about everything can tie into Oracle, it just a matter of how the data is stored inside Oracle that determines how useful it is. Done properly, any app that can pass SQL to Oracle can have the advantage of the spatial data without needing a GIS type front end...

                          Hope this helps,

                          Bruce
                          • 10. SDE and Oracle Spatial
                            3004
                            Have anybody used Mapobjects v/s oracle spatial ? Say If I collect data from MapObjects2 and want to store in oracle, is it a feasible combination ?


                            null
                            • 11. SDE and Oracle Spatial
                              3004
                              <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andrew Cohen (andrew_cohen@yahoo.com):
                              To someone who is new in the whole GIS area, I'm interested, what does SDE give you that Oracle Spatial doesn't??? Is it just the GUI tools like ArcIMS or does it actually give you extra server-side functionality?

                              Thanks,
                              Andrew
                              <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              Andrew:

                              Bruce is correct in what he stated (very useful information).

                              Additional functionality that you get out of the box from using ArcSDE is versioning in ARcMap. Multi-editing shops find versioning to be a useful tool. I have found that if you go down the versioning road then you have committed yourself to using ESRI software (ArcInfo 8.0 and ArcGIS 8.1 - to be releases sometime sooon). You can not edit an SDE layer in ArcInfo 8 software unless you register it as versioned. The good thing is that you can also unregister it as versioned if needed. You also get all the tools for creating subclasses, domains, relationship classes and geometric networks.

                              Hope this helps.

                              Diana

                              null
                              • 12. SDE and Oracle Spatial
                                3004
                                <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Raj,(raj@impetus.co.in):
                                Have anybody used Mapobjects v/s oracle spatial ? Say If I collect data from MapObjects2 and want to store in oracle, is it a feasible combination ?

                                <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                I endured an ePresenetation by Oracle about a week ago, and they pointed me to the EPA's enviromapper site. Its built with MO 1.2 and Oracle Spatial - and runs very fast. See www.epa.gov/enviro/html/em/index.html. Its impressive.
                                null
                                • 13. SDE and Oracle Spatial
                                  3004
                                  We've made solutions for updating and inserting spatial data in Oracle Spatial's native data format from both MapObjects and ArcIMS-based softwares. There has been no major technical problems.

                                  Spatial data is also used in same acrhitecture with other clients (MapInfo, Intergraph, Autodesk, etc.) with no problems.

                                  I wonder if anyone has experiences about tuning SDE and Oracle Spatial to work together. Any ideas what would be good spatial index parameters/principles when SDE uses directly Oracle Spatials indexing?

                                  Thanks,
                                  Markku
                                  • 14. SDE and Oracle Spatial
                                    3004
                                    Markku:

                                    We too are integrating Oracle Spatial and ESRI's ArcSDE product. We have been successful in making Oracle Spatial Object Model holding geometric data and serving it out to ESRI and Intergraph clients. However, this only works for non-versioned data.

                                    How did you address the issue of ArcSDE's "versioning" and ArcSDE's potential use of FeatureDatasets and FeatureClasses (where a FeatureClass is potentially a member of a FeatureDataset)?

                                    Thanks
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