Infrastructure Software

Dear Sir,

         @"Michael Ferrante-Oracle" is below tweet regarding forms 19c.

Dan,

There is a lot of confusion, speculation, and misinformation concerning the future of Oracle Forms and associated products. It would be nice if Michael or someone could provide an updated roadmap, MOS document, etc. Even our sales reps and support coordinators have conflicting information.

In 2018, Michael gave a presentation which contained a "Forms Road Map" slide (timeline) that showed "19.1.0.0 Patch Update" targeted for CY19. While that presentation contained the usual warning/disclaimer that the product was for information purposes only, is not a commitment, etc., etc., etc. However, a tweet by Michael also showed a success screen for Fusion Middleware / Forms Services 19.1.0.0.

Regardless of the actual version number attached to the final product, it would be nice to have some details available as to what we can expect to see. Not every organization is capable of applying the next product update without planning, scrutiny, etc. Throw in a timeline (i.e. 1 year to end of support after update) and things get stressful for absolutely everyone involved (i.e. "developer crunch"). A little information here can be a big help for project planning, software life cycle planning, resource management, etc.

1. According to the Lifetime Support Policy, Oracle Forms and Reports is supported until August 2022 / August 2025. However all other documentation, release notes, roadmaps, articles, presentations, etc. state that Reports is deprecated, 12.2.1.3 is the planned terminal release, reports not to be included with the next version, etc. and that BI Publisher (which a RUL is included with the WLS/Forms license) is the recommended replacement.
   1. Will 12.2.1.4/19.x continue to offer support for Oracle Reports?
   2. Will 12.2.1.4/19.x offer an installation option for BI Publisher or will it remain a separate download?
2. It has been stated that there are technical reasons that Oracle Forms 12.2.1.3 cannot be used with the newer releases of Java.
   1. Will 12.2.1.4/19.x continue to support Java 8?
   2. Will 12.2.1.4/19.x support Java 11 (the LTS release)?
   3. Will 12.2.1.4/19.x support both?
3. Will Forms 12.2.1.4/19.x continue to support JWS or will it be FSAL only? Obviously if there is no support for Java 8, it will have to be FSAL only.
4. Is the upgrade from 12.2.1.3 to 12.2.1.4/19.x the same as previous "upgrades" or will it be simpler (i.e. more like a true patch)? I understand that things are more complicated due to the underlying WebLogic and FMW Infrastructure.
5. Not specific to Forms, but an easier path to relocate the WebLogic repository would be nice. There are MOS documents on how to do this but there is a lot of room for error. So, if you could put in an enhancement request that'd be great! Probably 90% of our WLS installations are specifically for OFR.

I know Oracle, like many other companies, has a policy on what can and cannot be said on unreleased products. This is understandable, but it sure would be nice to be able to set management expectations and to be able to prepare them for changes on the horizon.

I think you'll have to be patient and wait :-)

CY19 is there and even more we don't know :-)

Let OOW come or KScope and perhaps .....

@"bkmcdaniel", let me start with this.  I have been working with Oracle and specifically the Forms product for a very long time.  In that time, neither I or anyone else with the authority to say anything about the Forms product have ever said that Forms was not planned to continue on forward.  We may have encouraged users to consider newer technologies when appropriate, but never was it said that the product was at the end of its life.  So there should be no "confusion, speculation, and misinformation", as you've stated, if you are listening to those with authority to comment.  Problems start when you (the community of product users) take comments from a third party who are trying to sell you something as gospel or manipulate you for some other purpose.  I have been in a Product Management role for a long time.  In that time, I have done nothing but provide roadmap information and generally good news about the product.  So it is unclear how anyone could be confused.

Regarding "Reports", Oracle previously announced the product as being deprecated.  This does not necessarily mean it won't be delivered any longer nor does it mean you are no longer entitled to support.  It means that Oracle is planning to end its life at some future time and you should not be banking on it being available in the future.  It also means that no new updates will be added to it.  It will basically be frozen in time beginning with 12.2.1.3.  So if Oracle decides to ship it with the next release or any release in the future, likely it would be just like it was in 12.2.1.3, except for changes required to make it compatible with the infrastructure and framework that hosts it.  It may (but may not) also include bug fixes that were deemed critical to include.  So yes, considering a move to BI-Publisher is likely a good idea if your organization is making significant changes to its current reports and expects to create new ones in the future.  That said, Reports 12.2.1.3, like most of the products in the FMW 12.2.1 family are entitled to support based on the published support dates.  At this time, there are no plans to change that.  So you can choose to remain on Reports for some time, but I would not wait until Aug 2022 (or Extended Support - Aug 2025) to start discussing what you should be doing next.  Such discussions should have already started.  Note that BI-Publisher is available on-premise, but is also available in Oracle Cloud (Oracle Analytics Cloud).  This could be a good match for Oracle Forms in Cloud, which you can do today using Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI- Compute).

Regarding your other comments/questions, beyond what I've said here, i can't say much more.  However, what I can say is that some of your desires are being planned for a future release.  Exactly which release I cannot say.  Also, with regard to continuing support of JWS or removing it from Forms, we have no plans to remove any functionality from Forms while related dependencies are still available and supported.  So in the case of JWS, which is planned to be available to Oracle customers who are using supported products (e.g. Forms 12.2.1.x), you should have some kind of JWS support at least until 2025 (and possibly longer).  FSAL will be the preferred configuration, although JWS is planned to continue being supported for the foreseeable future, as mentioned.

My recommendation is that if you have a product question (regardless which product or its vendor), you should reach out to someone of authority related to the product owner/vendor.  Offer very limited faith in social media and unsubstantiated rumors not communicated by those with authority to comment.

A more official statement can be found in MyOracleSupport Note 2009262.1

It all sounds like mostly good news to me...

In that time, neither I or anyone else with the authority to say anything about the Forms product have ever said that Forms was not planned to continue on forward.

There was no question or concern with that. Oracle has clearly stated that they remain committed to this product. As I stated in my post, the "confusion, speculation, and misinformation concerning the future of Oracle Forms and associated products." As you can see from my post, this mainly hinges on topics such as Java, Reports, and the things that are used in conjunction with Forms itself.

When it comes to Reports, I understand that it is deprecated, at the terminal release, and we shouldn't expect to see new features. To me, I would consider this to be a risk and will continue to be a risk until it is eliminated from our environment. To my management, they see "supported until August 2022." What my management does not understand is what "supported" means when it comes to Oracle products. It means I can submit an SR, it does not guarantee that it will be available with or work with later products. We ran into a similar situation years ago where a security fix was only available in OHS 11.1.1.9, could we upgrade the included OHS 11.1.1.7 with OFR 11.1.2.2? No (Doc ID 1373061.1). But our product was supported. Sure, we could submit an SR to request version compatibility, backport, etc. Such requests are often painful and lengthily to get a resolution. The whole 12.2.1, 12.2.1.1, 12.2.1.2, and 12.2.1.3 has been somewhat similar... technically, according to the Lifetime Support Policy, these are still supported. According to the Error Correction policy, that is a different story (Doc ID 1933372.1). I understand that this is the same process used elsewhere with Oracle - the 12.2/18c/19c database is another prime example of how the support policy says one thing but other documents are needed to get all the other details required to put together the big picture.

Again, my goal is to try and set expectations and keep management informed. MOS documents, statements of direction, and whitepapers are often vague and subject to change without notice (or details of what changed). I don't want my organization to be in a situation where they are planning to be done by X date, only to have a security situation that requires a patch/update specific to a particular version that is sans features still being used. When we ask such questions of our Oracle reps (sales or otherwise) we receive conflicting information from them or information that contradicts published documents. That's why the questions are put here, to hopefully get as much information as possible from those of authority, like you.

I'm in a situation where I cannot provide the information to management to get them to prioritize certain change. Yet, if something occurs and we need to make a move by a certain date, I will be the one to catch management's ire for not providing them the information to raise the priority. Damned either way. All I can do is ask questions, and if something occurs, have the documentation available to show that I tried and hope that is enough.

Well kudos to you for doing your homework.  I wish you would/could encourage others to do the same. 

Regarding Java, we (Forms) are doing everything within our internal boundaries to ensure that the changes in Java do not impact our customers' ability to run their Forms applications.  This was one reason for creating the Forms Standalone Launcher (FSAL).  If we find ways to improve it or even an alternative, we will consider that as well.  Going forward we will be considering improvements to FSAL that will hopefully make it easier to use and administer.  We are also looking into supporting newer Java versions although exactly which is to be determined.  Likely we would only support the LTS (Long Term Support) releases.  Also, we likely will not support the use of OpenJDK.  Only the Oracle builds would be certified.

For Reports, as I mentioned I see no immediate issue with getting support for using it assuming you are using the latest version (currently 12.2.1.3).  However, as time passes (especially after 12.2.1.4 releases), you may find it more difficult to get bugs fixed unless they are clearly critical.  That said, your definition of "critical" and Oracle's may differ and it is Oracle that will get the last word.  As for compatibility with other products, like my comments related to the use of Java with Forms, we are doing everything we can to ensure that Forms and Reports continue to offer direct integration (i.e. through RUN_REPORT_OBJECT). This should not be an issue for 12.2.1.4, but after that is still unknown.

I mentioned BI-Publisher above.  Don't forget that Forms 12.2.1.x introduced integration with BI-Publisher similar to the integration with Reports.  Check out the Forms 12c New Features Guide for more information about it and more.  You can find that doc and other Forms 12c specific papers here:

https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/developer-tools/forms/documentation/techlisting12c-2855390.html