14 Replies Latest reply: Nov 18, 2010 4:34 AM by 811778 RSS

    SCJA vs SCJP

    HG75
      Hi, I want to know from the expert opinion for career future.
      My goal is not to become a Java Programmer, but I want to be a Apps server system admin.
      However, an Apps Server like Weblogic is mostly used by Java application, that's why I'm interesting to learn from the basic, Java.
      therefore which one is good for me to pursue? SCJA or SCJP?
      I have PL/SQL experience but no OOP experience. and I don't know about Java framework, etc.

      please advice
        • 1. Re: SCJA vs SCJP
          811778
          I'm confused. You say you don't want to learn Java programming but then say you are interested to learn it?

          SCJA:
          "This certification provides an ideal entry into an application development or a software project management career using Java technologies. It validates basic knowledge of OO concepts, the Java programming language and general knowledge of Java platforms and technologies."

          SCJP:
          "This foundation certification is for programmers interested in demonstrating proficiency in the fundamentals of the Java programming language."

          I'm not sure why you would take either of these courses if you wanted to be a sysadmin. Surely there are appserver certification courses you could take?
          • 2. Re: SCJA vs SCJP
            jwenting
            SCJA is less in-depth, more of an overview of the language and development in general than a rigorous test of Java skills.

            Studying for it should serve your goals of learning the basics of what makes developers get out of bed in the morning better than SCJP, as it's more of a bird's eye view rather than getting down to the nitty gritty details.
            • 3. Re: SCJA vs SCJP
              811778
              jwenting wrote:
              SCJA is less in-depth, more of an overview of the language and development in general than a rigorous test of Java skills.

              Studying for it should serve your goals of learning the basics of what makes developers get out of bed in the morning better than SCJP, as it's more of a bird's eye view rather than getting down to the nitty gritty details.
              Fair 'nuff... Can't say I ever bothered looking at it considering I went straight to the SCJP.
              • 4. Re: SCJA vs SCJP
                HG75
                Hi, thanks for your opinion.
                I am interesting to learn about the engine behind Java, what is needed to deploy a java application, what is the different of Java SE, Java EE, Java Mobile, etc. what is JDK, JRE

                I am thinking by learning the engine, the framework behind Java can help me to understand better about application server like Weblogic (this is my final aim).
                Am I taking the wrong approach?
                Let me know if I am not saying my purpose clear.

                Edited by: HGDBA on Nov 17, 2010 9:30 AM
                • 5. Re: SCJA vs SCJP
                  Kayaman
                  meacod wrote:
                  Fair 'nuff... Can't say I ever bothered looking at it considering I went straight to the SCJP.
                  Straight to SCJP? Isn't SCJP the bottom of the rung, every-indian-has-it, next-to-worthless certificate? (Disclaimer: I don't have any Sun certifications)

                  Of course the worthlessness seems to have large geographical variations.
                  • 6. Re: SCJA vs SCJP
                    HG75
                    Kayaman wrote:
                    meacod wrote:
                    Fair 'nuff... Can't say I ever bothered looking at it considering I went straight to the SCJP.
                    Straight to SCJP? Isn't SCJP the bottom of the rung, every-indian-has-it, next-to-worthless certificate? (Disclaimer: I don't have any Sun certifications)

                    Of course the worthlessness seems to have large geographical variations.
                    Interesting point.
                    • 7. Re: SCJA vs SCJP
                      811778
                      I was under the impression it went SCJA -> SCJP -> SCJ(D?) and then split into various other groups like business developer, web developer, etc?

                      I could be wrong as it's been 12 months or so since I sat it, but I was sure there was an 'intro' level below the SCJP I did, which could have been SCJA.



                      Oh, and I quite liked the SCJP in the end (though my employer did pay for it). Probably because I focussed on learning the damn concepts and not just ROTE learning like your stereotyping statement implies.
                      • 8. Re: SCJA vs SCJP
                        Kayaman
                        meacod wrote:
                        I was under the impression it went SCJA -> SCJP -> SCJ(D?) and then split into various other groups like business developer, web developer, etc?
                        I could be wrong as it's been 12 months or so since I sat it, but I was sure there was an 'intro' level below the SCJP I did, which could have been SCJA.
                        Ah so it seems. I don't recall seeing that SCJA thing before. It does seem to be the entry point these days. Maybe with its addition the SCJP has improved from what it used to be.
                        • 9. Re: SCJA vs SCJP
                          811778
                          Kayaman wrote:
                          meacod wrote:
                          I was under the impression it went SCJA -> SCJP -> SCJ(D?) and then split into various other groups like business developer, web developer, etc?
                          I could be wrong as it's been 12 months or so since I sat it, but I was sure there was an 'intro' level below the SCJP I did, which could have been SCJA.
                          Ah so it seems. I don't recall seeing that SCJA thing before. It does seem to be the entry point these days. Maybe with its addition the SCJP has improved from what it used to be.
                          Quite possible, but it's been around as long as I've been aware of SCJP anyway.

                          The usefulness of SCJP all depends on your experience / how you were raised as a programmer, anyway. If you've grown up / worked before in low-level programming you probably don't need it. At the time, I only had 2.5 years of commercial Java and a 4-year, theory-heavy uni degree. So for me it was quite useful.


                          EDIT: my advice to the OP would be that if you don't want to program, stay well away from the SCJP. It goes quite a bit deeper into the language than you'll need.

                          Edited by: meacod on Nov 17, 2010 7:35 AM
                          • 10. Re: SCJA vs SCJP
                            HG75
                            yea that's my thought too....
                            thanks everybody
                            • 11. Re: SCJA vs SCJP
                              jschellSomeoneStoleMyAlias
                              HGDBA wrote:
                              Hi, I want to know from the expert opinion for career future.
                              My goal is not to become a Java Programmer, but I want to be a Apps server system admin.
                              Are you sure that is a viable career path? There are probably companies that hire for that but how many advertise for just that? Versus those for general admins, or admins experienced in network arch, or admins experienced in security, etc?
                              • 12. Re: SCJA vs SCJP
                                jwenting
                                jschell wrote:
                                HGDBA wrote:
                                Hi, I want to know from the expert opinion for career future.
                                My goal is not to become a Java Programmer, but I want to be a Apps server system admin.
                                Are you sure that is a viable career path? There are probably companies that hire for that but how many advertise for just that? Versus those for general admins, or admins experienced in network arch, or admins experienced in security, etc?
                                All companies I've ever worked in don't have people specialising in just the administration of application server software.
                                It's usually not a task that requires any one person's fulltime attention.

                                Therefore it's either a job handled by a network admin, sysadmin, or DBA as part of their day to day activities.
                                • 13. Re: SCJA vs SCJP
                                  jwenting
                                  meacod wrote:
                                  I was under the impression it went SCJA -> SCJP -> SCJ(D?) and then split into various other groups like business developer, web developer, etc?
                                  SCJA is separate from the rest.
                                  SCJP is required for most other certificates except SCJA and SCEA which stand on their own, SCJA as SCJP's little brother, SCEA as a certification for architects and analysts, not so much programmers.
                                  I could be wrong as it's been 12 months or so since I sat it, but I was sure there was an 'intro' level below the SCJP I did, which could have been SCJA.
                                  SCJA serves that, but doesn't come before SCJP, it just stops short of what SCJP does while having some sideshows that SCJP lacks.


                                  >
                                  Oh, and I quite liked the SCJP in the end (though my employer did pay for it). Probably because I focussed on learning the damn concepts and not just ROTE learning like your stereotyping statement implies.
                                  Yup. Same here. Really studying the course content rather than cramming for the test taught me quite a bit about the inner workings of the language.

                                  Problem is that a large portion of applicants don't go to that trouble, they cram the test with no intent to actually learn anything.
                                  • 14. Re: SCJA vs SCJP
                                    811778
                                    jwenting wrote:

                                    Yup. Same here. Really studying the course content rather than cramming for the test taught me quite a bit about the inner workings of the language.

                                    Problem is that a large portion of applicants don't go to that trouble, they cram the test with no intent to actually learn anything.
                                    Bingo.

                                    Lots of clever little things inside Java that I'd never thought of before, plus the ins and outs of garbage collection, and some stuff on multithreading and low-level stack/heap knowledge too.

                                    Much better to learn it than go 'pls explain difference static final' in some forum, then try to regurgitate it for the exam.