7 Replies Latest reply: Jun 27, 2012 12:09 PM by user8523783 RSS

    third party layer over rman like commvault simpana?

    453674
      My new company is mostly sql server, windows environment and I have been brought in to implement their first Oracle/Linux application.

      I am still in the planning stage and am learning about the environment and found out that Commvault is the backup software for the entire company. This backups up all of the servers as well as backup sql server databases. This was actually a surpise to me because I was cataloging all the backup schedules on sql server and here were other backup jobs in the log that I could not account for. It turns out these backup jobs were configured in commvault.

      I see that commvault does integrate with Oracle as a layer on top of rman. All I've ever used was RMAN. What would be the reason to use commvault on top of rman? I'm sure it makes using RMAN easier and make things "prettier" and schedulding "easier" but if I already have the knowledge of rman and cron why would I want to use this third party tool?

      Basically I'm just trying to prepare to discuss this with the system admins without looking like I'm possesive or not wanting to learn something new.

      Thanks for you input!

      Edited by: ninteck on Apr 4, 2012 4:28 PM

      Edited by: ninteck on Apr 4, 2012 4:31 PM
        • 1. Re: third party layer over rman like commvault simpana?
          EdStevens
          ninteck wrote:
          My new company is mostly sql server, windows environment and I have been brought in to implement their first Oracle/Linux application.

          I am still in the planning stage and am learning about the environment and found out that Commvault is the backup software for the entire company. This backups up all of the servers as well as backup sql server databases. This was actually a surpise to me because I was cataloging all the backup schedules on sql server and here were other backup jobs in the log that I could not account for. It turns out these backup jobs were configured in commvault.

          I see that commvault does integrate with Oracle as a layer on top of rman. All I've ever used was RMAN. What would be the reason to use commvault on top of rman? I'm sure it makes using RMAN easier and make things "prettier" and schedulding "easier" but if I already have the knowledge of rman and cron why would I want to use this third party tool?
          The "purpose" would be to give a common interface to handling backups and restores. As long as the product is actually using rman under the covers there should be no problem with it.

          >
          Basically I'm just trying to prepare to discuss this with the system admins without looking like I'm possesive or not wanting to learn something new.
          Actually, it DOES sound like you don't want to learn something new. You should try it first. Give it an honest trial before making any judgements.

          Thanks for you input!

          Edited by: ninteck on Apr 4, 2012 4:28 PM

          Edited by: ninteck on Apr 4, 2012 4:31 PM
          The "purpose" would be to give a common interface to handling backups and restores. As long as the product is actually using rman under the covers there should be no problem with it.

          Believe me, if this is a SQL Server shop and you are putting up their first Oracle db, you've got far bigger battles to fight than this.

          Edited by: EdStevens on Apr 5, 2012 7:39 AM
          • 2. Re: third party layer over rman like commvault simpana?
            713555
            rman backs up the database, you tell it where. If you want to go direct to tape you buy an oracle licence for your backup software, in this case, commvault.

            Once the agent gets installed , commvault can then run RMAN scripts to backup and restore the database, however, you can manually run RMAN to push backups up to commvault once you get all the right syntax with commvault environment varialbes. this is the usual purpose of 3rd party backup software.

            If you didnt want to pay for the agent, rman to disk, commvault should be backing up OS anyway, just put the rman backups to an area on the disk that commvault will pick up on. Now you have a backup on disk to restore from as well. you cant rman directly from the tape and you'll have to decide if that solution is for you based on storage available and the size of your database but its a more common way of doing it when possible.

            Alternatively again, if you ahve the agent, rman to disk and then backup recovery files to tape. giving you both disk and tape backups.
            • 4. Re: third party layer over rman like commvault simpana?
              Mark Malakanov (user11181920)
              What would be the reason to use commvault on top of rman? I'm sure it makes using RMAN easier and make things "prettier" and schedulding "easier" but if I already have the knowledge of rman and cron why would I want to use this third party tool?
              We are currently using Commvault Simpana to backup Oracle.
              It is convenient and is inline with our enterprise backup strategy.
              You should try it.
              • 5. Re: third party layer over rman like commvault simpana?
                jgarry
                EdStevens wrote:
                ninteck wrote:
                My new company is mostly sql server, windows environment and I have been brought in to implement their first Oracle/Linux application.

                I am still in the planning stage and am learning about the environment and found out that Commvault is the backup software for the entire company. This backups up all of the servers as well as backup sql server databases. This was actually a surpise to me because I was cataloging all the backup schedules on sql server and here were other backup jobs in the log that I could not account for. It turns out these backup jobs were configured in commvault.

                I see that commvault does integrate with Oracle as a layer on top of rman. All I've ever used was RMAN. What would be the reason to use commvault on top of rman? I'm sure it makes using RMAN easier and make things "prettier" and schedulding "easier" but if I already have the knowledge of rman and cron why would I want to use this third party tool?
                The "purpose" would be to give a common interface to handling backups and restores. As long as the product is actually using rman under the covers there should be no problem with it.
                Basically I'm just trying to prepare to discuss this with the system admins without looking like I'm possesive or not wanting to learn something new.
                Actually, it DOES sound like you don't want to learn something new. You should try it first. Give it an honest trial before making any judgements.
                What do you do if it fails? (I was in that situation once, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. The actual fail was in the tape hardware/3rd party interface for complete restore, but I didn't see that at the time, only later when others ranted on the tubes.) Changing global backup strategy is a b*-and-a-half, politics are inevitable.
                • 6. Re: third party layer over rman like commvault simpana?
                  EdStevens
                  jgarry wrote:
                  EdStevens wrote:
                  ninteck wrote:
                  My new company is mostly sql server, windows environment and I have been brought in to implement their first Oracle/Linux application.

                  I am still in the planning stage and am learning about the environment and found out that Commvault is the backup software for the entire company. This backups up all of the servers as well as backup sql server databases. This was actually a surpise to me because I was cataloging all the backup schedules on sql server and here were other backup jobs in the log that I could not account for. It turns out these backup jobs were configured in commvault.

                  I see that commvault does integrate with Oracle as a layer on top of rman. All I've ever used was RMAN. What would be the reason to use commvault on top of rman? I'm sure it makes using RMAN easier and make things "prettier" and schedulding "easier" but if I already have the knowledge of rman and cron why would I want to use this third party tool?
                  The "purpose" would be to give a common interface to handling backups and restores. As long as the product is actually using rman under the covers there should be no problem with it.
                  Basically I'm just trying to prepare to discuss this with the system admins without looking like I'm possesive or not wanting to learn something new.
                  Actually, it DOES sound like you don't want to learn something new. You should try it first. Give it an honest trial before making any judgements.
                  What do you do if it fails? (I was in that situation once, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. The actual fail was in the tape hardware/3rd party interface for complete restore, but I didn't see that at the time, only later when others ranted on the tubes.) Changing global backup strategy is a b*-and-a-half, politics are inevitable.
                  My response was more social than technical. I'm not a big fan of Commvault, but it could be because the only place that I've worked that used it was the WORST place I've ever worked, and the oracle dba's were the red-headed stepchildren. But the OP, being the new guy in the shop, needs to pick his battles, IMHO, this is one that needs to be deferred until he has the experience with the product to make a legitimate professional recommendation. As it is, he's going to appear exactly as he fears - that he's fighting it because it isn't what he's used to. And in truth, that appearance will be perfectly valid.

                  ( part of my perspective on the OP's position is from the fact that I just started a new job last week myself. Place is very comfortable, and my manger has assured me several times that I am the senior Oracle dba, and the systems are mine to configure to my liking. But I'm still going to spend some time gathering information and learning how they do business before making any major recommendations. I'd say that's a case of "wisdom comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement").
                  • 7. Re: third party layer over rman like commvault simpana?
                    user8523783
                    We are in the process of implementing Commvault Simpana 9 with Oracle. I am wondering what you guys did in your configuration and if you could pass on any lessons learned that we could utilize? Please let me know.