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    Recent (July 2012) article about Oracle Linux on slashdot

    Catch-22
      Already a couple of days old, but I had some fun reading and adding in a couple of replies.

      http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/07/27/0236219/cowboyneal-reviews-oracle-linux
        • 1. Re: Recent article about Oracle Linux on slashdot
          845849
          Yeah, I saw that on /. a few days ago... most slashdoters assume that Oracle = evil... Oracle = lockin... Oracle = expensive -- I guess it takes time to change those perception!

          We need to point people to: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/server-storage/linux/technical-contributions-1689636.html
          • 2. Re: Recent article about Oracle Linux on slashdot
            Catch-22
            Thanks for the link. Though I wish it had some date when it was written since things in IT often change.

            I think it's quite obvious that opinions are generally biased, driven by personal perception and passing of information from person to person rather than time consuming research. All this combined with product loyalty contributes to dual political standards and objections about what some company or product should do while another must not.

            Well, simply put, despite that a business corporation has the right to make a living and more and an obligation to take well care of it's staff, I never liked the idea of having to pay for something that was initially meant to be be free. In my case, Oracle has resurrected Enterprise Linux, and encouraged me to become reacquainted with it.
            • 3. Re: Recent (July 2012) article about Oracle Linux on slashdot
              Moderator interference:

              I edited the title of your initial post so that it might read better as we all go forward.
              • 4. Re: Recent (July 2012) article about Oracle Linux on slashdot
                Catch-22
                Ok, thanks. I'm beginning to realize however that political aspects do not seem to have much of an audience here, or perhaps forum participants are reluctant to share an opinion or experience in general.
                • 5. Re: Recent (July 2012) article about Oracle Linux on slashdot
                  Billy~Verreynne
                  Or maybe because it is a waste of time to try and address utter ignorance, especially when that person refuses to accept that he/she is ignorant? Many a slashdot poster revels in ignorance and personal prejudices.

                  You know what they say about arguing with pigs. You both get dirty and pig likes it.
                  • 6. Re: Recent (July 2012) article about Oracle Linux on slashdot
                    Catch-22
                    A computer is not necessarily a machine where you go in as a pig and come out as a sausage, but I know what you mean. I'm not a regular slashdot reader, though I remember it being a reputable source of information in the past. Or maybe it used to be, long time ago?
                    • 7. Re: Recent (July 2012) article about Oracle Linux on slashdot
                      bobthesungeek76036
                      Dude wrote:
                      Ok, thanks. I'm beginning to realize however that political aspects do not seem to have much of an audience here, or perhaps forum participants are reluctant to share an opinion or experience in general.
                      IMHO that is a good thing!!!
                      • 8. Re: Recent (July 2012) article about Oracle Linux on slashdot
                        Billy~Verreynne
                        I'm not sure. The Internet (web forums and usenet) seems to be of a lessor discussion medium these days. Not that there were not trolls and flame wars in the "old days". But even those were not that nasty as some of the stuff posted today. Ad hominem style of arguing was not the norm. Prejudice used to be overruled by sound technical argument and evidence.

                        So getting into a "debate" about Oracle Linux pros and cons on slashdot.. do not see anyone gaining anything really useful from that discussion.

                        Or maybe I'm just getting old? ;-)
                        • 9. Re: Recent (July 2012) article about Oracle Linux on slashdot
                          Catch-22
                          I agree that there is probably no advantage in discussing pros and cons about slashdot after all. And I also agree that it is a good idea that there are no mud fights here. I did not mean political talks like MS-Windows vs Linux, etc.

                          What I actually meant by political topics are for instance strategic aspects of Oracle Linux, like what we might see in the future or what would be a nice to have. I think such discussions are useful and can give some new ideas about development or support opportunities.

                          I remember there was only one post in a long time by someone wondering why one would choose Oracle Linux instead of Red Hat.

                          Or why for instance, did Oracle choose Linux instead of Solaris, in particular since it acquired Sun? Was it because of the existing Linux market and vendor support?

                          Questions like these.
                          • 10. Re: Recent (July 2012) article about Oracle Linux on slashdot
                            Billy~Verreynne
                            Dude wrote:

                            Or why for instance, did Oracle choose Linux instead of Solaris, in particular since it acquired Sun? Was it because of the existing Linux market and vendor support?

                            Questions like these.
                            I think that it is answered by x86 architecture having a far greater market base than Sparc, and that Solaris x86 not having the same market penetration as Linux x86. Oracle needs to be a x86 market player - and the o/s choice for x86 is pretty much limited to Linux and Windows.

                            The real questions to ask IMO are why exactly did Oracle get onto the Linux x86 wagon, a lot earlier than other commercial vendors, and why did Oracle branch RHEL into an Oracle Linux release?

                            Back then, the x86 database server market was relatively small. PA-Risc, Sun Sparc, MIPS and the others were the kings of the medium to large server market. Not Intel/AMD.

                            And Linux was not really seen as an o/s for running "high end" commercial products either.

                            Does not matter how one looks at why Oracle went x86 and Linux, it was pretty much revolutionary thinking. Something that a lot of Linux fanbios forget when slamming Oracle the company. Oracle is one of the major reasons, Linux is a widely used corporate database server platform today.

                            The real reasons for OL is also not that clear. This came shortly after RedHat's JBoss acquisition - that Oracle was also considering of buying, with Larry being upset by not getting JBoss (so I've heard). So there are rumours that revenge was a factor in the decision.. ;-)
                            • 11. Re: Recent (July 2012) article about Oracle Linux on slashdot
                              Catch-22
                              My best guess was that there are a couple of reasons for Oracle Linux:

                              1) I can imagine that technical aspects resulted in the UEK kernel. The RHEL kernel, at least in RHEL 5 was pretty old, perhaps blocking the development of Oracle's own kernel drivers.

                              2) Red Hat officially said "Yes, we undercut Oracle with hidden Linux patches", whining that they would steal Red Hat customers. I guess that was a very good reason for Oracle to branch its own kernel.
                              http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/03/04/red_hat_twarts_oracle_and_novell_with_change_to_source_code_packaging

                              Like I mentioned before, Oracle was the reason why I actually got hooked up to Linux again, actually in order to install Oracle 11g to study for OCP. RHEL was one of the more visible choices, but you cannot register with e.g. gmail, to be able to download RHEL for evaluation.

                              I checked the timeline of OEL and Solaris. The first version of OEL according to wikipedia dates to May 2007. The acquisition of Sun by Oracle was completed beginning of 2010. So I guess Solaris had bad luck since OEL was already doing the job for the Intel market. In some way I think it is a pitty, because Solaris has a nice user interface and special features, but development on Oracle Linux has continued, e.g. BtrFS, Dtrace.

                              I think it might take some more time before vendor certification for Oracle Linux (UEK) reaches the same level like RHEL, but I'm sure that will happen. Personally I don't give much about vendor certification, but some do. After all, people use applications, not the OS, so Oracle by "nature" rules over Red Hat, which is just an OS.
                              • 12. Re: Recent (July 2012) article about Oracle Linux on slashdot
                                Billy~Verreynne
                                Dude wrote:

                                So I guess Solaris had bad luck since OEL was already doing the job for the Intel market.
                                There's also FreeBSD and SCO for x86. Solaris was a relative latecomer to the x86 Unix-type o/s market.
                                In some way I think it is a pitty, because Solaris has a nice user interface and special features, but development on Oracle Linux has continued, e.g. BtrFS, Dtrace.
                                Matter of opinion I think - I find KDE (with Compiz/Beryl extensions) as the best user interface I have ever worked with. 2nd to the Irix X-Windows system on the Indigo workstations of mid to late 90's, from SGI.

                                As for Solaris as a serious x86 kernel contender. There's the kernel R&D factor. Using the Constructive Cost Model 81 (COCOMO 81), researchers calculated the R&D costs of the Linux kernel version 2.6.30 (released Dec 2009) at over 1 billion euros. There's only one other o/s that is looking at such high R&D figures - the Windows kernel.

                                Solaris and other o/s kernels fail to compare. And fails to reach the same level of innovation and, ultimately, kernel growth and sophistication.
                                • 13. Re: Recent (July 2012) article about Oracle Linux on slashdot
                                  861130
                                  I'm not sure Linux continues to be a great innovator now days, since most of it's development is pushed by companies only contributing code where it benefits their products. They only write stuff that they can then use to sell something else. Look at btrfs (essentially copied zfs), dtrace, etc.etc. they are old features that were present in other OS's 6 or 7 years ago. They are just copies of already well established features that someone else has already made. Think about it - Microsoft contribute 4% of all the new Linux 3.0 code - and they don't even like linux!!
                                  • 14. Re: Recent (July 2012) article about Oracle Linux on slashdot
                                    Billy~Verreynne
                                    If you look at the latest research done in computer based technology, such as molecular data storage, which o/s is the obvious choice to use for building drivers to test the technology? Open Source provides major benefits and shorter development cycles.

                                    We have been seeing, and IMO will continue to see, new technology being available on Linux before other operating systems.
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