8 Replies Latest reply: Sep 11, 2012 8:45 AM by 713555 RSS

    Oracle Certified Master, Java EE 5 Enterprise Architect (why so expensive?)

    959395
      Someone suggested I get the Oracle Certified Master, Java EE 5 Enterprise Architect certification but to get it I must take an expensive instructor lead class. The Oracle page clearly states "Self-Study CDs are excellent study and reference tools but DO NOT meet the course requirement for certification". Why does this certification have an outrageously expensive course requirement?
        • 1. Re: Oracle Certified Master, Java EE 5 Enterprise Architect (why so expensive?)
          matthew_morris
          Oracle's master level certifications are intended to indicate true mastery of the topic. Attending an Oracle Education course does not guarantee that you will emerge with a deep understanding of the topic. However, it does indicate that someone is serious about learning the material. All too many people pursuing Oracle certifications try to do so by locating brain dumps, or illegally downloading copyrighted material to study with. Requiring an instructor-led course keeps these people from becoming Oracle Masters. Only truly serious Oracle professionals become Oracle Masters.

          The master level certifications are also supposed to be very elite. The harder and more expensive it is to obtain any given certification, the fewer people will have it and the more valuable it is. Put another way, part of the reason it is more valuable is because it is more expensive to obtain.
          • 2. Re: Oracle Certified Master, Java EE 5 Enterprise Architect (why so expensive?)
            631783
            Hi Matthew and dear-someone-behind-user956392,


            As for the thread opening question, I totally agree with user956392's frustration as well as I also understand your (Matthew) opinion/justification on the hands-on course requirements. Well, the way I see it, is a bit different than you do.
            Attending an Oracle Education course does not guarantee that you will emerge with a deep understanding of the topic. However, it does indicate that someone is serious about learning the material. All too many people pursuing Oracle certifications try to do so by locating brain dumps, or illegally downloading copyrighted material to study with. Requiring an instructor-led course keeps these people from becoming Oracle Masters. Only truly serious Oracle professionals become Oracle Masters.
            I agree that if someone gains his/her certification by cheating is something to be addressed though I would not think that the purpose of hands-on course requirements has much to do with it.
            Apparently many people that use illegally downloaded copyrighted material or brain dumps to "study" are not kept from taking exams like certified professional (OCP) exam which also has hands-on course requirement (it is true: only one, not two, but still)

            In my view, attending to an Oracle education course does not necessarily indicate someone's seriousness about learning the material, I believe it is especially true when someone is about to obtain the OCM certification, just to be on-topic.
            If someone's knowledge/experience has got to a certain level this person does not need to attend to any Oracle education course but is able to learn the material by him/herself. I guess (or rather I hope) when you mentioned truly serious Oracle professionals, you were referring to such people.

            For hands-on course requirements, has it occurred to anyone that maybe these requirements (not just for OCM exams) aim to keep exams profitable and help Oracle to sell more instructor-led courses?
            Do not get me wrong, I am not saying this is what it is all about (how would I know? I do not work for Oracle) it is just a hypothetical question/thought.

            The master level certifications are also supposed to be very elite. The harder and more expensive it is to obtain any given certification, the fewer people will have it and the more valuable it is. Put another way, part of the reason it is more valuable is because it is more expensive to obtain.
            Yes, I totally agree, the quality and the value of the master level certification go together with the fact that the exam is expensive - showing its value. It is absolutely reasonable, though what is beyond me, to tell the least, is the 2 advanced hands-on course as a requirement associated with the exam. (Talking about the 2 days exam now)
            I think the exam itself without the hands-on course requirement is expensive enough to indicate it represents an elite group. Sorry, but the same hypothetical question I asked above has just occurred to me again.


            Finally, let me emphasize that I do not mean to argue with or question anyone's opinion, I respect these opinions.

            Regards,
            Jozsef
            • 3. Re: Oracle Certified Master, Java EE 5 Enterprise Architect (why so expensive?)
              713555
              The master level certifications are also supposed to be very elite. The harder and more expensive it is to obtain any given certification, the fewer people will have it and the more valuable it is. Put another way, part > of the reason it is more valuable is because it is more expensive to obtain.
              Oracle charge a lot of money for courses to make money. Not to make certifications harder to get. Someone is not better at something due to their ability to buy a course. It is not right to spin it otherwise. But before you think Im complaining about that, Im not, Oracle are a business like any other.

              Certifications are easy to get if you have money. This is not the way it should be. For the amount of money the courses costs, the exams could change to weighted on a high percentage of work submission based to counter brain dumps.

              As an open question, What other software/hardware/database vendor requires official vendor courses to have been sat before certification and are those certifications thought of to have any less value in the workplace. Microsoft? IBM?
              • 4. Re: Oracle Certified Master, Java EE 5 Enterprise Architect (why so expensive?)
                matthew_morris
                I guess (or rather I hope) when you mentioned truly serious Oracle professionals, you were referring to such people.
                I spend a lot of time on this and other forums that have a lot of postings by candidates for Oracle certifications. I see a lot of posts by people that are obviously interested in learning the absolute minimum required to pass the test, and to do so without spending any money. They want braindumps and copyrighted material to be emailed to them. You'll know them by their forum postings on boards that don't eliminate threads offering such materials. The thread will end up in a constant stream of 'Please send the materials to me too. My email address is no_oracle_skills@someisp.com'. While I understand that some people don't have much money to spend on books and study materials, the Oracle documentation is an excellent study source and it's free and legal and perfectly legitimate to use.

                I don't know their motives, but the impression they give is that they have no real interest in learning Oracle, but rather in adding a line to their resume in the hopes that someone will hire them for their 'Oracle Skills'. This is the class of people I was referring to that will be weeded out by a course requirement. They'll make it to the OCA level and then stop.
                For hands-on course requirements, has it occurred to anyone that maybe these requirements (not just for OCM exams)
                aim to keep exams profitable and help Oracle to sell more instructor-led courses?
                Of course it has. This is even noted in the "Answers to Frequently Asked Questions on this Forum" thread at the top of the forum. However, the charge loses some validity due to the fact that training at non-Oracle centers also qualifies.

                I think the exam itself without the hands-on course requirement is expensive enough to indicate it represents an elite group.
                I think four years of tuition at the University of Central Florida is expensive enough to make it an elite degree. Doesn't that make it as elite as a four year degree from Harvard which is about five times as expensive? :)

                In the end, Oracle sets the requirements to gain an Oracle certification. You decide whether an Oracle certification is valuable enough to your career to meet those requirements. If you decide that it simply is not worth it, then not becoming Oracle certified is both simple and cheap.
                • 5. Re: Oracle Certified Master, Java EE 5 Enterprise Architect (why so expensive?)
                  matthew_morris
                  Certifications are easy to get if you have money.
                  I could counter that University degrees are easy to get if you have money. They're both an investment in your career that you hope will pay you back by leading to higher earnings.
                  For the amount of money the courses costs, the exams could change to weighted on a high percentage of work submission based to counter brain dumps.
                  There is absolutely no way for Oracle to measure or validate work submission. How can they verify that someone has really worked as a DBA for a given number of years or that they were any good at it. How easy do you think it would be for someone to build up an online persona that seemed to have worked in the field as a DBA for years, or craft official-looking letters attesting to their skills, and so forth?
                  As an open question, What other software/hardware/database vendor requires official vendor courses to have been sat before
                  certification and are those certifications thought of to have any less value in the workplace. Microsoft? IBM?
                  Well let's take Cisco. Cisco certifications are highly respected. Mind you, the tests don't cost $200. The mid-level tests cost around $1500, and the architect is $15,000. No training is required, though. Would you prefer that Oracle remove the training requirement from the OCP, but bump the test prices? They'd likely make more money that way because they wouldn't have to pay for an instructor to teach you anything.
                  • 6. Re: Oracle Certified Master, Java EE 5 Enterprise Architect (why so expensive?)
                    713555
                    I think four years of tuition at the University of Central Florida is expensive enough to make it an elite degree. Doesn't that make it as elite as a four year degree from Harvard which is about five times as expensive?
                    If youre really good, you can get a scholarship to harvard. :)
                    • 7. Re: Oracle Certified Master, Java EE 5 Enterprise Architect (why so expensive?)
                      matthew_morris
                      If youre really good, you can get a scholarship to harvard
                      If you're 20% that good, you can get a scholarship to UCF. :)
                      • 8. Re: Oracle Certified Master, Java EE 5 Enterprise Architect (why so expensive?)
                        713555
                        matthew_morris wrote:
                        If youre really good, you can get a scholarship to harvard
                        If you're 20% that good, you can get a scholarship to UCF. :)
                        Touché.