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Course requirement for OCP 10g

713555 Pro
Currently Being Moderated
Im working with Oracle database a long long time. My company cant and wont justify the time and expense of sending me on a course for which Id get no technical benefit.

So my question is why are the courses required for certification? If its only to prove that "the candidate has worked with the product", then is there a alternative way than asking that theyve sat a course? I remain on OCA otherwise.
  • 1. Re: Course requirement for OCP 10g
    matthew_morris Expert
    Currently Being Moderated
    Go to Google and run a search for "1Z0-042 study material". Better than 80% of the results that come back will be for braindumps.
    Take a look at most forums that discuss Oracle certification. You'll see a host of people asking to have dumps and 'materials' sent to their email address.

    There is a huge problem with legitimacy. All too many people are looking for ways that they can lie, cheat and steal their way into an Oracle certification so that they can get hired for a job that they aren't qualified to do (although the order is a bit wrong -- first they cheat with braindumps, or steal copyrighted material and then they lie about the legitimacy of their certification).

    One way to help protect the legitimacy of the OCP certification is to require training at a center that Oracle can validate will not simply sign off that person X has attended training when in fact they have not. Taking the training doesn't ensure that someone is qualified, but it does tend to ensure that only serious candidates become OCPs.

    As an extension to this, the degree to which any certification is valuable lies largely in how difficult it is to obtain. Part of that difficulty is in the knowledge required, but part is also in the expense and or time required to obtain it. A good portion of the reason why a degree from Harvard is prestigious is because it costs so much to get one.

    Oracle cannot make exceptions to the training rule for experience because there is no way for them to judge one person's experience vs another's. If they were to start making exceptions like that, there's no telling where it would lead.

    There are other vendors besides OE that can provide the required training. As a general rule, they are cheaper. You can locate them here:

    http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=317
  • 2. Re: Course requirement for OCP 10g
    bigdelboy Pro
    Currently Being Moderated
    deebee_eh wrote:
    .... My company cant and wont justify the time and expense of sending me on a course for which Id get no technical benefit ....
    Please remember there are quie a few course that will satisfy the requirement.

    It is highly unlikely you would not benefit from attending at least one of them! ( And if you wait 3 months then ther will probably be a 12c new features course that would satisy as well ... unlikly you know that!)

    Some are shorter and cheaper than others ... the 2 (if any still available) or 3 day course are cheaper. There is also the possibility of training on demand courses. Your requests may get rejected ... but consider exploring a few avenues.
  • 3. Re: Course requirement for OCP 10g
    713555 Pro
    Currently Being Moderated
    I do appreciate what youre saying and yes I am aware of the braindumps and the reason for official courses to counter them, I dont have a problem with that. I have a couple of repeat exams in my test history to prove to anyone whos interested that Im not in favour of those but anyway...

    I have many oracle courses done over a long period of time, I even have 2 9i DBA courses from 12 years ago that would satisfy the 9i ocp but that doesnt qualify OCP in 10.

    I suppose my argument is would be why restrict it to those only in the below link. For example, I attended an Oracle instructor led spatial course last year. 5 days. Lot of advanced SQL. I could not have done the course without advanced SQL knowledge. Why would that course not be worthy of satisfying official content knowledge and experience yet a SQL introductory course is included?

    http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=244#3

    The 9i OCP and upgrade route seems to be the way to go for me as I qualify for that..
    And if you wait 3 months then ther will probably be a 12c new features course that would satisy as well ... unlikly you know that!)
    Oh agreed, I hope I didnt come across as someone who thinks they knows it all, far from it, but I do think that realistically I know enough that any course thats currently on the qualification list isnt worth the investment of sending me on just to qualify me for certification (arguementative if I was an independent contractor and could justify it for CV purposes). I tend to read the new release features doc inside out when they come out.
  • 4. Re: Course requirement for OCP 10g
    matthew_morris Expert
    Currently Being Moderated
    I suppose my argument is would be why restrict it to those only in the below link. For example, I attended an Oracle instructor led spatial
    course last year. 5 days. Lot of advanced SQL. I could not have done the course without advanced SQL knowledge. Why would that
    course not be worthy of satisfying official content knowledge and experience yet a SQL introductory course is included?
    From the URL on what courses are vaild:

    Oracle Database 10g Administrator Certified Master courses will also fulfill the training requirement for this certification (please note that if you use one of the 10g DBA OCM courses to fulfill the training requirement for OCP, you will not be able to use the same course to fulfill one of the 2 course requirements for OCM.)

    In the course list of valid advanced courses for the OCM:

    Oracle Spatial 10g: Advanced

    So submit that course using the course submission form and you should be golden.
  • 5. Re: Course requirement for OCP 10g
    713555 Pro
    Currently Being Moderated
    matthew_morris wrote:
    I suppose my argument is would be why restrict it to those only in the below link. For example, I attended an Oracle instructor led spatial
    course last year. 5 days. Lot of advanced SQL. I could not have done the course without advanced SQL knowledge. Why would that
    course not be worthy of satisfying official content knowledge and experience yet a SQL introductory course is included?
    From the URL on what courses are vaild:

    Oracle Database 10g Administrator Certified Master courses will also fulfill the training requirement for this certification (please note that if you use one of the 10g DBA OCM courses to fulfill the training requirement for OCP, you will not be able to use the same course to fulfill one of the 2 course requirements for OCM.)

    In the course list of valid advanced courses for the OCM:

    Oracle Spatial 10g: Advanced

    So submit that course using the course submission form and you should be golden.
    :( i just checked and it was spatial essentials which I attended when i look it up doesnt qualify as a course. It has to be spatial advanced.

    However you did put me on to something, looking at the rest of the courses to qualify for OCM I see the list of 9i courses
    Oracle9i Release 2: Real Application Clusters
    Oracle9i Database: Advanced Backup and Recovery using RMAN
    Oracle9i: Data Warehouse Administration
    Oracle9i Database: Implement Partitioning
    Oracle9i Database: Implementing Oracle Streams
    Oracle 9i: Data Guard Administration
    Oracle Enterprise Manager 9i
    Oracle9i Database: Security
    Oracle9i Database: SQL Tuning Workshop R2
    Oracle 9i: Advanced Instance Tuning
    Oracle Net Services: Advanced Administration
    Oracle9i Database: Advanced Replication
    Oracle9i: Program with PL/SQL
    Oracle9i: Advanced PL/SQL
    Oracle9i: Implement Advanced Queing
    Oracle9i: SQL Tuning Workshop
    I have a confirmed record of having done 9i DBA fundamentals I and II courses. Any reaons why those coures would not be included in that list and is there any way they can be added when you compare them to something the enterprise manager 9i course for example they would arguably be more valid and cost just the same.

    I do appreciate your replies Matthew. thanks.
  • 6. Re: Course requirement for OCP 10g
    matthew_morris Expert
    Currently Being Moderated
    I have a confirmed record of having done 9i DBA fundamentals I and II courses. Any reaons why those coures would not be included in that list
    My understanding is that as a general rule, course requirement versioning goes backwards, but not forwards. A 10G course will count towards a 9i OCP and an 11G course will count towards a 10G OCP. The 9i courses listed as qualifying for OCM are exceptions. All of them can be considered 'advanced' courses rather than fundamentals.

    In your previous thread in this forum, you indicated that you had taken a RAC course with OE but forgot the specific name. Did you ever pursue tracking down what course that was? It might well qualify.
  • 7. Re: Course requirement for OCP 10g
    713555 Pro
    Currently Being Moderated
    matthew_morris wrote:
    I have a confirmed record of having done 9i DBA fundamentals I and II courses. Any reaons why those coures would not be included in that list
    My understanding is that as a general rule, course requirement versioning goes backwards, but not forwards. A 10G course will count towards a 9i OCP and an 11G course will count towards a 10G OCP. The 9i courses listed as qualifying for OCM are exceptions. All of them can be considered 'advanced' courses rather than fundamentals.
    /shoulders drop/ So it would seem.

    >
    In your previous thread in this forum, you indicated that you had taken a RAC course with OE but forgot the specific name. Did you ever pursue tracking down what course that was? It might well qualify.
    I requested internally a record of all courses that I had attended, but there seems to be no record of that RAC course. I knoiw of at least 2 other courses I attended that theres no record of either but they defintely dont qualify so not bothered by them. I have no access to previous records to verify on my side as it was at least 2 companies and many years ago. I have the RAC exam sat and passed last year but as Id planned to get OCP anyway to qualify it on that side I hadnt worried too much about the course submission at the time so although I have many courses done over the years they always seem to be just outside the requirement for certification. Certification requirement was never an issue when I was looking at courses over the years but as I stated earlier, where I technically am now I find it hard to justify the expense.

    Im moving jobs soon so wanted to get any certifications tidied up. I'll either have to go through 9i OCP and upgrade to 10 to get the RAC cert or as Im moving jobs soon, hope to get new employer to stump up for a qualifying course.

    edit: thanks for your replies though.
  • 8. Re: Course requirement for OCP 10g
    matthew_morris Expert
    Currently Being Moderated
    I'll either have to go through 9i OCP and upgrade to 10...
    Yep -- if the only consideration is money, then your best bet is probably to take the following three tests:

    1Z0-031 Oracle9i Database: Fundamentals I
    1Z0-032 Oracle9i Database: Fundamentals II
    1Z0-040 Oracle Database 10g: New Features for Administrators

    Assuming you pass all three of them, the cost would be about $600 (in the US -- dunno about Ireland). Of course you'll also be spending study time. Of course if you end up failing one, the expense goes up. I don't know what a course costs at BT Training Solutions in Dublin, so can't say what the cost savings is.

    On the plus side, this will end up with you having three certifications, including the RAC one...
  • 9. Re: Course requirement for OCP 10g
    713555 Pro
    Currently Being Moderated
    matthew_morris wrote:
    I'll either have to go through 9i OCP and upgrade to 10...
    Yep -- if the only consideration is money, then your best bet is probably to take the following three tests:

    1Z0-031 Oracle9i Database: Fundamentals I
    1Z0-032 Oracle9i Database: Fundamentals II
    1Z0-040 Oracle Database 10g: New Features for Administrators
    http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=458&get_params=p_track_id:Datab9i
    plus the 1Z0-033 for OCP before I can go on to the 10g upgrade. Ive done the maths. 4 exams at 154 euro each. Cheapest course I think is about 1800. I worked out 10 days study for each one, thats what it took me for 10g OCA (can I sell that OCA back to oracle btw as it useless if I pursue the 9i > 10g route, how much is a second hand certification worth on the open market? I think at least 1800)


    >
    Assuming you pass all three of them, the cost would be about $600 (in the US -- dunno about Ireland). Of course you'll also be spending study time. Of course if you end up failing one, the expense goes up. I don't know what a course costs at BT Training Solutions in Dublin, so can't say what the cost savings is.

    On the plus side, this will end up with you having three certifications, including the RAC one...
    there is that.
  • 10. Re: Course requirement for OCP 10g
    bigdelboy Pro
    Currently Being Moderated
    deebee_eh wrote:
    matthew_morris wrote:

    From the URL on what courses are vaild:

    Oracle Spatial 10g: Advanced

    So submit that course using the course submission form and you should be golden.
    :( i just checked and it was spatial essentials which I attended when i look it up doesnt qualify as a course. It has to be spatial advanced.
    I will back up totally Matthew's view on this thread that there is no point submitting a 9i course for for a 10g DBA certification, or a 10g course for an 11g DBA Certification. Those might try however are wasting everybody's time.

    However yours is a relatively special case.

    However my thought is that the 10g spatial essentials is at least a 10g level course that ought to be applicable for satisfying the 10g DBA OCP course requirement.

    My suggestion is to submit that course for your 10g DBA OCP course requirement.

    - There is a great chance it is rejected.
    - There is a not so great chance it is accepted immediately no question. And if it is accepted immediately you should follow the royal to Dromad and wonder at the throne of the queen of England there by the heat of the old holby boiler. If it is still there. 'Tis a while, the Cambria and Hibernia are no more.

    If is rejected ... and there is no immediate chance of conversation with the rejector, raise a Certification Service Request indicating why you thing this course should be appropriately on the 10g DBA course list, and see if it can be accepted.

    ....

    My opinion is Oracle really does not need people fiddling about with 9i certifications, they need people to focus their energies on 11g/12c. In an ideal world Oracle would proably like to sell you another 11g/12c course; in practice that isn't always possible. The Certification team IMHO, and i may wrong, may try to be reasonably helpful.

    ...

    Apologies if this is all a waste of time ... but you stand a small chance.

    .....

    TO ANYONE TRYING THIS WITH 9i COURSE FOR A 10g CERTIFICATION DONT BOTHER. (or 10g for 11g or 11g for 12c)
    THERE ARE EXTREMELY FEW SITUATIONS WHERE THIS COULD APPLY. THIS MIGHT BE ONE OF THEM. IMHO.

    .... Regards from the little one green post behind a belted galloway on the grass with her tail up and a cough.
  • 11. Re: Course requirement for OCP 10g
    713555 Pro
    Currently Being Moderated
    del, you have let a chink of light into my certification life. I have been pecking away at the 10g OCP exam and have been holding off booking it as it is a waste of time and money to sit it if the courses wont qualify. I'll open the cert SR and see where we are.

    I'll make a pilgrimage to many thrones if a happy ending is found.
  • 12. Re: Course requirement for OCP 10g
    Brandye Barrington Expert
    Currently Being Moderated
    You mentioned a RAC course. If this was in 10g, I'd suggest contacting Oracle Certification Support http://bit.ly/KMsuH3 with all the details you may have and ask if they can find a record of the training in the Oracle training database (provided you took the course from Oracle University).

    Regards,
    Brandye Barrington
    Certification Forum Moderator
  • 13. Re: Course requirement for OCP 10g
    user3531246 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    "Oracle Database 11g: Administration Workshop II Release 2" course will fulfill the training requirement for 10g OCP?
    In the approved course list for 10gOCP there is "Oracle Database 11g: Administration Workshop II" course, but it's not "Release 2".
    This is my first course , can I take "Administration Workshop II" for first or "Administration Workshop I" is a prerequisite ?


    Regards
  • 14. Re: Course requirement for OCP 10g
    bigdelboy Pro
    Currently Being Moderated
    user3531246 wrote:
    "Oracle Database 11g: Administration Workshop II Release 2" course will fulfill the training requirement for 10g OCP?
    In the approved course list for 10gOCP there is "Oracle Database 11g: Administration Workshop II" course, but it's not "Release 2".
    This is my first course , can I take "Administration Workshop II" for first or "Administration Workshop I" is a prerequisite ?


    Regards
    You've hijacked onto an interesting thread that is not directly relevant to your question. Well I suppose the subject matches so i will give you that.

    Checkout http://certification.oracle.com - preparation ( Its the weekend .. the site isn't displaying right for me and my browser in the uk ... but it will get sorted by late monday i expect)

    And also in particular the help center: http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=562
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