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3 Replies Latest reply: Mar 25, 2013 1:10 AM by gimbal2 RSS

What's the future of the JVM?

jfbaro Newbie
Currently Being Moderated
Hi,

I have been looking into the limitations the GC imposes to really large HEAP sizes in the JVM.

http://blogs.forrester.com/john_r_rymer/10-06-21-why_im_worried_about_javas_future

Nowadays it's easy for big corporations (which use Java a lot) to buy servers with 512GB (or more) of RAM. How can they rely on JAVA as GC pauses can affect their applications so bad. And if we are talking here about an application which needs tens, hundreds of GB to run it is probably a mission critical one.

What are the computer scientists at Oracle doing/investigating to solve that? Is there any hope? Will JVM still be THE dominant platform in big corporations?

I have found ZING (from Azul Systems), but I would like to know when all these improvements will come to Oracle JVM (Free version as well).

Cheers
  • 1. Re: What's the future of the JVM?
    jschellSomeoneStoleMyAlias Expert
    Currently Being Moderated
    jfbaro wrote:
    Hi,

    I have been looking into the limitations the GC imposes to really large HEAP sizes in the JVM.

    http://blogs.forrester.com/john_r_rymer/10-06-21-why_im_worried_about_javas_future

    Nowadays it's easy for big corporations (which use Java a lot) to buy servers with 512GB (or more) of RAM.
    Might be easy for them to buy them but their business model doesn't support it.

    A normal large corporation would require at a minimum 4 servers. Two pairs coloc'd in different places.

    Normal user request patterns would tend towards small requests that impact multiple systems. So there is no point for an application server to have vast amounts of memory. There might be some systems but they are specialized (and there might not be any need for that either.) And supporting 10-20 servers in each coloc is no worse than supporting 2.

    And this of course supposes that the actual business can be handled with 2 coloc. With a really large corp (international) they will need many coloc. So the fact that the entire enterprise could conceptually run on a single server means nothing for a realistic business model.
    How can they rely on JAVA as GC pauses can affect their applications so bad.
    Naturally not a problem is one runs 20 servers instead of 1.
    And if we are talking here about an application which needs tens, hundreds of GB to run it is probably a mission critical one.
    Not necessarily. Could be used for analysis or data modeling or other internal only uses.
    What are the computer scientists at Oracle doing/investigating to solve that? Is there any hope? Will JVM still be THE dominant platform in big corporations?
    I doubt they are doing anything. Their databases already support a vast array of businesses so they probably have a very good idea what "big" companies really do.

    And they also have a very specific way of dealing with anomalous needs - service contracts and custom solutions.
    I have found ZING (from Azul Systems), but I would like to know when all these improvements will come to Oracle JVM (Free version as well).
    "Big" companies can afford to pay for solutions.

    If a company doesn't feel that the money is worth it they can always modify the VM themselves.
  • 2. Re: What's the future of the JVM?
    Kayaman Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    I find the article confusing. He's starting out by saying that JVM supports only 2GB of memory, which would obviously be horrible. He is then surprised when 64-bit JVM is mentioned.
    Some good points about GC pauses, but that's hardly an unsolvable problem (as the guy from Azul says).
  • 3. Re: What's the future of the JVM?
    gimbal2 Guru
    Currently Being Moderated
    Its also 2 years old. I'm not even going to give it any thought until a more current version of that blog post is written.

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