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    Oracle Database appliance

    19600a8f-81ac-4817-8f11-5fcc833b7b28

      We are thinking and planning to migrate our database to ODA. There were very good points being made by Oracle reps and we are familiar with the new features. Here I want to know from the people having real time experience with ODA if they are facing any kind of problem related to ODA?

      Please share your experiences about ODA. Is this a way to go?

        • 1. Re: Oracle Database appliance
          sb92075

          19600a8f-81ac-4817-8f11-5fcc833b7b28 wrote:

           

          We are thinking and planning to migrate our database to ODA. There were very good points being made by Oracle reps and we are familiar with the new features. Here I want to know from the people having real time experience with ODA if they are facing any kind of problem related to ODA?

          Please share your experiences about ODA. Is this a way to go?

          I am planning on buying a shovel.

          Please share your experiences about shovels you have used.

          want to know from the people having real time experience with any shovel if they are facing any kind of problem related to shovels?

          Is a shovel the right tool for me?

          • 2. Re: Oracle Database appliance
            rp0428
            We are thinking and planning to migrate our database to ODA. There were very good points being made by Oracle reps and we are familiar with the new features. Here I want to know from the people having real time experience with ODA if they are facing any kind of problem related to ODA?

            Please share your experiences about ODA. Is this a way to go?

            No - it is NOT a 'way to go'. The best solution for your use case is: DO NOTHING!

             

            Let me put what sb92075 said more directly.

             

            1. You already have a database

            2. You have presented NO business problems or issues with your current database

            3. Therefore there is NO justification for making ANY changes whatsoever to your current environment

             

            Or, even more directly:

             

            If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

             

            Why don't you tell us what BUSINESS PROBLEM you are trying to solve. Then  we can offer advice on how to solve it.

            • 3. Re: Oracle Database appliance
              19600a8f-81ac-4817-8f11-5fcc833b7b28

              rp0428 I thought the question was straight. I was asking from the Stability and Performance point of view. I was asking from people who are currently using ODA if they compare their old system with ODA.

               

              Reason we are thinking of migrating because our servers (Oracle Solaris) are going out support and we find this option cheaper than upgrading Oracle Solaris servers.We are going to ask Oracle if they can give us any references so we can ask then directly but I thought of asking here also.

               

              I am more worried about any negatives if there are any like bugs.

              • 4. Re: Oracle Database appliance
                19600a8f-81ac-4817-8f11-5fcc833b7b28

                sb92075: Actually I should have mentioned you in my question also for not replying on this post something like " SB92075 PLEASE REFRAIN FROM REPLYING on my POST" . I do not what is the problem with you? Why don't you talk polite and straight?

                • 5. Re: Oracle Database appliance
                  rp0428
                  rp0428 I thought the question was straight. I was asking from the Stability and Performance point of view. I was asking from people who are currently using ODA if they compare their old system with ODA.

                  Ok - but you have to understand that the ONLY info that we have is what you provide in your thread. And that included NO info about what BUSINESS PROBLEM you are trying to solve. Based only on what you posted first the impression I got was that the decision had already been made to migrate to ODA and you wanted to know how that worked out for other people.

                   

                  The usual order in which I personally deal with things is:

                  1. identify a problem or issue

                  2. validate that the problem or issue really exists

                  3. identify potential solutions that will eliminate/mitigate the problem/issue

                  4. select a small number of those solutions for actual testing

                  5. select the overall (subjective) 'best' solution from those tested

                   

                  So if your decision has already been made then it becomes rather irrevelant how it worked for others. You will have to live with your decision.

                  Reason we are thinking of migrating because our servers (Oracle Solaris) are going out support and we find this option cheaper than upgrading Oracle Solaris servers.We are going to ask Oracle if they can give us any references so we can ask then directly but I thought of asking here also.

                  Good! That is a start. But that statement makes NO mention of ANY other business or operational issues that might need to be taken into account.

                   

                  It is a huge leap of faith for us to simply assume that server and support cost is going to be the ONLY consideration. Even if that were true then there are generic hardware solutions (servers, storage options, etc) that would be VERY MUCH cheaper than specialized hardware/software such as ODAs.

                   

                  Further adoption of specialized hardware/software software solutions (ODAs) can incur substantial ancilliary costs in terms of training, operational issues (e.g. backup and recovery processes will need to be modified), user access issues (your network topology may require major changes) and the like.

                   

                  Do you use Dataguard now? You will be doing it differently if you use ODAs and you will may need extra licensing.

                   

                  What level of redundancy do you have now? The more things you put in one box the more that one box becomes the single point of failure. So you need two boxes minimum.

                   

                  Do you currently use or have any experience with VM? Do you plan to use VM with the ODAs? Adoption of VM is a major change in and of itself regardless of the hardware used underneath. Do you plan to use or need live migration of your VMs when failure occurs? If so that will have implications for the ODA configurations you will be limited to.

                   

                  What does your storage architecture look like now? Whatever it is it will be different when you use ODAs. Another substantial change.

                   

                  Assuming that you have done the leg work and have identified ODAs as a potential solution then your next step would be to develop a strategy for testing that possible solution. This means doing it in a way the allows you to discard it if testing shows it isn't as viable for your use case as you thought.

                   

                  That generally means purchasing (or leasing if available) a small, introductory, version of ODA simply so your people can get some 'hands on' experience with doing the simple, basic things: install a database, configure storage, backup the DB, recover the DB.

                   

                  After all, you know you can do those things EASILY on generic server hardware.

                   

                  Part of the business decision comes down to whether you really want to lock in Oracle as your hardware vendor rather than have other hardware options available. Hmmm - isn't Oracle the one that is causing your Solaris servers to 'go out of support'?

                   

                  Now that you have begun divulging the real factor (cost) behind the issue you should get some better and more useful responses.

                  • 6. Re: Oracle Database appliance
                    19600a8f-81ac-4817-8f11-5fcc833b7b28

                    First I apologize for not being so clear .This could  be my limitations with the English. and I really appreciate your time and suggestions

                     

                    Second I do agree there are others hardware available and I also agree these engineered system comes with their own cost but like you said we have done the leg work. There are other reasons as well like short staffing and other reasons I cannot mention here.

                     

                    The main reason to post my discussion here is to know that ODA is really a thing what Oracle claims it to be. They say about its manageability. it looks good on white papers but I wanted to know from real life experiences whether its really is easy to manage. Is it a really a one-click patch management for kernel,os and database.

                     

                    But I really like your idea to lease the box and do the hands on. I guess if its possible we will do that.

                    Thanks again.

                    • 7. Re: Oracle Database appliance
                      rp0428
                      Second I do agree there are others hardware available and I also agree these engineered system comes with their own cost but like you said we have done the leg work. There are other reasons as well like short staffing and other reasons I cannot mention here.

                       

                      No need to discuss the details but it sounds like you might have of of those 'tweener' systems: not small and non-critical but not large either; somewhere 'between' the two.

                       

                      There are a lot of those out there. Systems important enough to use good hardware (and Solaris was/is definitely good hardware) but where the application and/or number of users wasn't extremely large. Sun had a very good niche for those important small to midsize needs. Until just recently I had an E3500 8-way in my personal data center with fibre-channel disks that could outperform systems costing 10 times as much. And that E3500 was a dinosaur by Sun standards.

                       

                      Small staffing is a two-edged sword especially if you move to VM and/or ODA systems. That expertise is hard to come by right now because it isn't that widespread. Just ask around to some placement agencies (or just check DICE or monster-like sites) and see what reaction you get.

                       

                      That means your current staff will need to be trained or learn on the job and if you lose someone a good replacement will be hard to find. But again, for those certain niche use cases where you were small but spent to buy good hardware that may not be as much of an issue there.

                      The main reason to post my discussion here is to know that ODA is really a thing what Oracle claims it to be. They say about its manageability. it looks good on white papers but I wanted to know from real life experiences whether its really is easy to manage. Is it a really a one-click patch management for kernel,os and database.

                      I haven't personally worked with ODA but have done a lot of work with Oracle VM. All of those technologies depend a great deal (as does RAC) on a second network that is used to 'manage' and monitor the nodes. They keep track of what nodes are available, their status and detect when a node has problems so nodes can be taken offline and new ones brought on as dynamically as possible.

                       

                      But the implication of that is there is now ANOTHER system (that shadow system) that can become a point of failure and often doesn't have any redundency. Although it is a much simpler system its health is critical to proper and efficient operation of the main system (the one you actually care about).

                       

                      So there is a 'hidden' cost for the DBA team to learn that hidden system, troubleshoot it and fix it if necessary. Unfortunately there is no real equivalent to that if you have not used VM (or at least RAC) before. With RAC most of the management is handled by Oracle but with VM they aren't quite there yet.

                       

                      Spending time and (human) resources to learn and experiment with that background system (which has its own set of utilities and command structure by the way) contributes essentially NOTHING to the main task of migrating/supporting your actual DB and applications but if you don't do it and have a failure you will NOT recover quickly; the learning curve is too steep.

                       

                      And for very large DBs VM can be a problem in terms of memory and resource management especially if you try to share a limited set of hardware with multiple applications.

                       

                      You can visit the Oracle VM forums and see what kind of questions are being ask and how difficult those questions are. You will also see how often those questions actually get answered.

                      But I really like your idea to lease the box and do the hands on. I guess if its possible we will do that

                      It is free to download Oracle's VM and there are plenty of existing templates already available if you want to take a test-drive of that functionality.

                       

                      The simple way is test Oracles VirtualBox first:

                      http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/server-storage/virtualbox/downloads/index.html

                      Oracle VM VirtualBox

                      VirtualBox is powerful Cross-platform Virtualization Software for x86-based systems.
                      "Cross-platform" means that it installs on Windows, Linux, Mac OS X and Solaris x86 computers. And "Virtualization Software" means that you can create and run multiple Virtual Machines, running different operating systems, on the same computer at the same time. For example, you can run Windows and Linux on your Mac, run Linux and Solaris on your Windows PC, or run Windows on you Linux systems.

                      Oracle VM VirtualBox is available as Open Source or pre-built Binaries for Windows, Linux, Mac OS X and Solaris.

                      You just install VirtualBox as an application on your existing OS and then your VM applications run inside it.

                       

                      Next step up would be Oracle's VM. You install VM manager on an existing OS. It has the repository and manages the VM network.  VM servers get installed on bare metal hardware and communicate with an existing VM manager.

                       

                      VM downloads - http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/server-storage/vm/downloads/index.html

                       

                      VM Templates - http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/server-storage/vm/overview/templates-101937.html

                       


                      On the plus side, using a heterogeous solution like ODA, especially when you can afford the redundency of a second box definitely makes management much easier with a small, experienced staff. Once the system has been configured and deployed properly it will present FAR FEWER problems that using discrete servers and components.

                       

                      Not a good analogy but if you are poor and buy a used ferrari it will work great and you will LOVE it until it breaks. Then you find out just how expensive the simplest of replacement parts can be.

                       

                      And you will find out how expensive it is to get serviced because there won't be that many shops that have the right equipment, parts or personnel to service it.

                       

                      Good luck with your project.

                      • 8. Re: Oracle Database appliance
                        Nicolas.Gasparotto

                        19600a8f-81ac-4817-8f11-5fcc833b7b28 wrote:

                         

                        sb92075: Actually I should have mentioned you in my question also for not replying on this post something like " SB92075 PLEASE REFRAIN FROM REPLYING on my POST" . I do not what is the problem with you? Why don't you talk polite and straight?

                        You hitted "abuse" button on sb's post. So as a moderator here I'm coming for a small explanation: at the very moment sb posted his reply, I have to admit you did not say anything clear and had rather a very wide scope question. With its own words sb tried to explain it to you, do not take it wrong, nothing personally, but he's probably right even though it might appear a bit harsh to you. What now ? Keep it in mind for the next question you'll ask over here, but for now continue the discussion with rp0428 who seem very pleased to help you out.

                         

                        Nicolas (moderator).

                        • 9. Re: Oracle Database appliance
                          19600a8f-81ac-4817-8f11-5fcc833b7b28

                          Nicolas.Gasparotto wrote:

                           

                          19600a8f-81ac-4817-8f11-5fcc833b7b28 wrote:

                           

                          sb92075: Actually I should have mentioned you in my question also for not replying on this post something like " SB92075 PLEASE REFRAIN FROM REPLYING on my POST" . I do not what is the problem with you? Why don't you talk polite and straight?

                          You hitted "abuse" button on sb's post. So as a moderator here I'm coming for a small explanation: at the very moment sb posted his reply, I have to admit you did not say anything clear and had rather a very wide scope question. With its own words sb tried to explain it to you, do not take it wrong, nothing personally, but he's probably right even though it might appear a bit harsh to you. What now ? Keep it in mind for the next question you'll ask over here, but for now continue the discussion with rp0428 who seem very pleased to help you out.

                           

                          Nicolas (moderator).

                          Nicolas.Gasparotto:

                          Yes I did hit the abuse button and did mention the reason that this kind of behavior is very discouraging harassing for other users here specially the newbies. I acknowledged my mistake and I did apologize for that. I do not know why some people take unnecessary side. I have seen him using lots of adjectives(sarcasm) for other.

                           

                          On th either hand, you can compare rp0428 first reply. he helped me realize my mistake in straight form and in the professional manner. sb92075 should behave like professional. Infact I have seen him discouraging other newbies who sometimes cannot explain their question in a detailed manner due to their lack of command in English.

                           

                          Only I am saying is he should be straight and polite. i do not care if he is guru in this forum. He should know how to behave with the fellow community members. I know he is disrespectful to people most of a time.

                           

                          Did you ever think why most of the people in this forum has a problem with him and not with anybody else?

                          • 10. Re: Oracle Database appliance
                            19600a8f-81ac-4817-8f11-5fcc833b7b28

                            Thanks again rp0428. I really appreciate your time again. I will keep these considerations in mind.

                            • 11. Re: Oracle Database appliance
                              jgarry

                              19600a8f-81ac-4817-8f11-5fcc833b7b28 wrote:

                               

                              Nicolas.Gasparotto wrote:

                               

                              19600a8f-81ac-4817-8f11-5fcc833b7b28 wrote:

                               

                              sb92075: Actually I should have mentioned you in my question also for not replying on this post something like " SB92075 PLEASE REFRAIN FROM REPLYING on my POST" . I do not what is the problem with you? Why don't you talk polite and straight?

                              You hitted "abuse" button on sb's post. So as a moderator here I'm coming for a small explanation: at the very moment sb posted his reply, I have to admit you did not say anything clear and had rather a very wide scope question. With its own words sb tried to explain it to you, do not take it wrong, nothing personally, but he's probably right even though it might appear a bit harsh to you. What now ? Keep it in mind for the next question you'll ask over here, but for now continue the discussion with rp0428 who seem very pleased to help you out.

                               

                              Nicolas (moderator).

                              Nicolas.Gasparotto:

                              Yes I did hit the abuse button and did mention the reason that this kind of behavior is very discouraging harassing for other users here specially the newbies. I acknowledged my mistake and I did apologize for that. I do not know why some people take unnecessary side. I have seen him using lots of adjectives(sarcasm) for other.

                               

                              On th either hand, you can compare rp0428 first reply. he helped me realize my mistake in straight form and in the professional manner. sb92075 should behave like professional. Infact I have seen him discouraging other newbies who sometimes cannot explain their question in a detailed manner due to their lack of command in English.

                               

                              Only I am saying is he should be straight and polite. i do not care if he is guru in this forum. He should know how to behave with the fellow community members. I know he is disrespectful to people most of a time.

                               

                              Did you ever think why most of the people in this forum has a problem with him and not with anybody else?

                              He is not the only one people have a problem with, there are many others with the same attitude.  I have no problem with him/her/it.  The people who have problems are the ones who don't ask smart questions, as explained in the How To Ask Questions The Smart Way faq.  Think about what it takes to get as many points as that person has - that hardly says most people have a problem, rather it says the person is very helpful.  Would it be nice if the person had a different style?  Perhaps.  But it would be some other person.  The most important point is that person cuts right to the heart of the matter.  That's what techies do, being politic is secondary.  The admins have called him out at times (as they have me, and rightfully so in my case).  It is the nature of this method of communication to misread emotional context.

                               

                              Consider this:  One newbie asking a poor question.  Ten newbies asking poor questions.  Ten thousand poor questions.  Only a machine could remain polite through that, and people would be offended at that cold politeness.

                              • 12. Re: Oracle Database appliance
                                19600a8f-81ac-4817-8f11-5fcc833b7b28

                                jgarry wrote:

                                 

                                19600a8f-81ac-4817-8f11-5fcc833b7b28 wrote:

                                 

                                Nicolas.Gasparotto wrote:

                                 

                                19600a8f-81ac-4817-8f11-5fcc833b7b28 wrote:

                                 

                                sb92075: Actually I should have mentioned you in my question also for not replying on this post something like " SB92075 PLEASE REFRAIN FROM REPLYING on my POST" . I do not what is the problem with you? Why don't you talk polite and straight?

                                You hitted "abuse" button on sb's post. So as a moderator here I'm coming for a small explanation: at the very moment sb posted his reply, I have to admit you did not say anything clear and had rather a very wide scope question. With its own words sb tried to explain it to you, do not take it wrong, nothing personally, but he's probably right even though it might appear a bit harsh to you. What now ? Keep it in mind for the next question you'll ask over here, but for now continue the discussion with rp0428 who seem very pleased to help you out.

                                 

                                Nicolas (moderator).

                                Nicolas.Gasparotto:

                                Yes I did hit the abuse button and did mention the reason that this kind of behavior is very discouraging harassing for other users here specially the newbies. I acknowledged my mistake and I did apologize for that. I do not know why some people take unnecessary side. I have seen him using lots of adjectives(sarcasm) for other.

                                 

                                On th either hand, you can compare rp0428 first reply. he helped me realize my mistake in straight form and in the professional manner. sb92075 should behave like professional. Infact I have seen him discouraging other newbies who sometimes cannot explain their question in a detailed manner due to their lack of command in English.

                                 

                                Only I am saying is he should be straight and polite. i do not care if he is guru in this forum. He should know how to behave with the fellow community members. I know he is disrespectful to people most of a time.

                                 

                                Did you ever think why most of the people in this forum has a problem with him and not with anybody else?

                                He is not the only one people have a problem with, there are many others with the same attitude.  I have no problem with him/her/it.  The people who have problems are the ones who don't ask smart questions, as explained in the How To Ask Questions The Smart Way faq.  Think about what it takes to get as many points as that person has - that hardly says most people have a problem, rather it says the person is very helpful.  Would it be nice if the person had a different style?  Perhaps.  But it would be some other person.  The most important point is that person cuts right to the heart of the matter.  That's what techies do, being politic is secondary.  The admins have called him out at times (as they have me, and rightfully so in my case).  It is the nature of this method of communication to misread emotional context.

                                 

                                Consider this:  One newbie asking a poor question.  Ten newbies asking poor questions.  Ten thousand poor questions.  Only a machine could remain polite through that, and people would be offended at that cold politeness.

                                 

                                jgarry: What do you mean by "that what techies do". Techies can be disrespectful or harsh? rp was bit strict in his first reply but he was straight and professional and I didn't find he was disrespectful. Techie should be technical, he shouldn't just be posting analogies.

                                I am not questioning his knowledge, I am just saying he should treat his fellow community members with respect. Etiquettes does not come with knowledge. I think he is a great example of this saying. Yes he is different but he sounds arrogant.

                                I completely agree with you that people should be posting their question with more details and in proper manner but think about people who are new, whose English language is not their first language (including mine) or who just sometime post a question in a hurry. You should be teaching them in a nice way(teaching in a nice way is not being political). In this case like the rp0428 did. You should not just start posting analogies.

                                 

                                I realized my mistake when I saw rp's post NOT when I saw sb's post. Infact I was pissed at him after seeing his reply.  If one can explain things in a nice manner , why other cannot?

                                 

                                I really like your posts here in this forums but I do not understand why you always take his/her/it side? I am just asking him to be nice.  What is wrong in this?

                                • 13. Re: Oracle Database appliance
                                  Fahd.Mirza

                                  Hello,

                                    One of our clients' bought the ODA for consolidation purposes. Their objective was to shift their 5 development databases to the ODA. They consolidated their 5 databases into one database on ODA, step by step, two at a time. Databases to schemas conversion is of course their own thing, according to their preferences, but doing in chunks enabled them to measure the performance, capacity and response times. After the whole migration, they faced with few issues regarding resource management, but with careful planning and balancing of resources with DBRM they were able to manage it. They also had some issues with few of bugs for which patches were applied. In couple of cases, Oracle support also provided one off patches. They also had issues while applying 2.2 Infra Patch.


                                  I hope that helps. Sorry for generic info, but a general advice I would like to furnish is to keep Oracle support close to you while applying patches


                                  HTH

                                  • 14. Re: Oracle Database appliance
                                    rp0428
                                    Their objective was to shift their 5 development databases to the ODA. They consolidated their 5 databases into one database on ODA

                                    Can you clarify what you mean by 'consolidated their 5 databases into one database'?

                                     

                                    My interpretation of that is that they now have only ONE database when they use to have FIVE. Is so it makes you wonder why they did that rather than just keep all 5 and migrate them to ODA.

                                     

                                    I would also point out that there is a huge difference between production and development databases. As I alluded to earlier  VM tends to work pretty well for dev since the maintenance and up-time requirements are typically minimal. But the problems can be much bigger for production especially for large DBs.

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