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    Upcoming Jive 7 upgrade


      I thought it might be a good idea to start a new thread and continue Intermittent outages on Saturday using a more suitable subject.


      In response to: moniquevdb-Oracle


      End of June is just a couple of months from now. If you are planing to provide a preview for everyone ahead of time and pulling together some documentation as well you may need to start next week already.


      From what I experienced, people do not really ask much about monitoring the forum or have many questions about Following or Tracking. Although the new system may provide a reasonable change in this area, I very much doubt it is people's major concern with the current software. I would rather suggest not to upgrade to a new system unless the Jive editor is fixed and provides a user friendly way to format and post code. Otherwise I can imagine many people will just be annoyed about the need to get accustomed to yet another new forum interface, for nothing. I would rather not count or rely on people finding the interface more useful or attractive.

        • 1. Re: Upcoming Jive 7 upgrade

          Looking at https://community.jivesoftware.com/community/support/jive/overview for example:


          Most of the focus seems to be on advertising. The users's posts appear at the bottom of page. No more top participants list. Will the new OTN forum look the same way?

          • 2. Re: Upcoming Jive 7 upgrade

            I've been browsing and playing around in the Jive community for a bit and think the new Jive 7 is definitely increasing the focus on people's personal profile and what information Jive targets to be most interesting. Maybe it's a matter of getting used to the new interface, or perhaps implementation, but I find it more cumbersome to find my own posts or content in general.


            Facebook and social media community experts may disagree, but I think it's common sense that personal appearance in particular is often deceiving. For that reason I do not even want to be on Facebook and be globally and visibly connected with people that may not be in the best of my interest. Is this unreasonable, or how to others think about it?

            • 3. Re: Upcoming Jive 7 upgrade

              Entirely reasonable.


              The problem with that arises because reasonableness doesn't particularly matter, what everyone else uses does.  For this kind of forum, there are then two choices; use the most popular paradigm, or use a paradigm tailored more specifically to technical advice.  The apparent problem with the latter is the only choices available are perceived as dinosaurs.  Yes, you could write something new in Apex or whatever, the talent and infrastructure is available, but when you factor in things like the actual cost over the life, design costs and the fact that it hasn't already had the man-years required to do it, it's a hard-sell to management.  The eat-your-own-dog-food arguments get skewed too, I won't get into that, except to note there are people in Oracle pushing social, and they have different views than us more technical people.  Maybe someone will just feel challenged and write something like asktom over a weekend.  But that would still require some fail with the 7 upgrade for management to change direction, unless of course some disruptive manager takes over.  And all the obvious predictable things we see (rather, have seen!) notwithstanding, even a moderate fail could be rationalized away with some PR about bleeding edge software.


              So, the snarky but true answer is "deal with it, Princess."


              I personally don't deal with it in the best manner, managing to upset people online periodically.  People who "know" my online persona often realize where I'm coming from, but far more don't know what the heck I'm talking about, put their own context on to it, and have all sorts of strange reactions.  But thanks to all those years on usenet, I don't have to care that much.  Social media has to grow up, but there will be some very bad pains.  Like, how about that Arab Spring, eh?  The net effect seems to have been to teach many small dictatorships how to be Big Brother.  Now we have worldwide protests as large groups of people become emotionally upset over small outrages that have always been there.  No good will come of having reactions far out of proportion to events.

              • 4. Re: Upcoming Jive 7 upgrade

                Jive 7 is presumably more Facebook for Enterprise in favor of generation 2.0 employees and partners then any previous version.


                I think the success of Facebook simply demonstrates how keen people are to have some Internet presence and to be part of the Internet communication age, without actually having any clue. Many people probably also see it as an advertising platform for themselves, hoping to be discovered for their lifestyle or accomplishments. To put it simply, my perception of social media like Jive 7 and Facebook is that both take advantage of most peoples desire for recognition and success and to make useful or profitable connections. I think this is mostly wishful thinking and question the real value of such concepts, but it's probably an ideal platform for extroverts and opportunists.


                I wonder if computer experts rather prefer to be introverts and find what is driving the social media community rather annoying. At least I do not know any computer expert who is really fancy about Facebook. Instead, I usually hear much criticism, in particular when personal appearance becomes more important or valuable than actual ability or real accomplishment. Needless to say, that the average Joe Schmo is relatively easy to predict and impress.


                The Internet is  a central and often primary source of information and generally perceived as being objective and unbiased. However, the sad truth is that clever business concepts have already found ways to collect people's Internet footprints to manipulate information to favor specific business interests. Facebook and Google are probably pioneers and market leaders in these areas. How does Jive 7 fit into such concepts?


                How do computer experts fit into Jive? I do not anticipate it could happen on OTN, but I do not need to be the employee of the week and would find it rather embarrassing. If any appreciation for forum members on OTN exists, I would prefer to get some free Oracle training, etc., instead of becoming a sandwich-board or have my connections, profile and photo bump around in cyberspace.

                • 5. Re: Upcoming Jive 7 upgrade

                  Very well said Dude! .




                  • 6. Re: Upcoming Jive 7 upgrade

                    Thanks! Reading it again though I may have sound a bit extreme. Perhaps the reality is somewhere in the middle.


                    Anyway, Jive apparently provides the right buzzwords that attracts corporations. It does obviously a very good job to advertise it’s enterprise level capacity and providing a state of the art social media solution. It also pretends to be the market leader and is followed by a jubilant crowd of social media experts and sales clerks.


                    Ever since I started with computers, management has always been hellbent for universal one fits all solutions to save costs and gain more control. Also Oracle has merged the OTN and MOS community, probably for economic reasons and to modernize the system according to new standards and trends.


                    Well, new solutions often overestimate advantages to convince new customers, but often underestimate requirements and end user demands and final costs or risks. We have to assume that Oracle has done all the preliminary research and knows what it’s doing. Considering that functional issues and lack of interface and available user and admin features have been around for years, according to posts in the Jive community, I wonder though how much Jive really cares about the actual users.


                    I guess we will see what Jive 7 has to offer and how Oracle implements the product. I figure not many people are interested in this subject, probably saying that it does not matter anyhow, or waiting to complain when it happens. Hopefully past performance is not necessarily an indicator for future performance. On the bright sight, there are usually always ways to take advantage in one way or another. It's just that sometime efforts and resources could be spent for better tasks or reasons.

                    • 7. Re: Upcoming Jive 7 upgrade

                      Probably what is required that instead of buying the keywords related to web 2.0 and Facebookish kind of interface, important things for the forum to be implemented. For example, editor . For example, the ability to see who modified the thread last in the thread listing, ability to get the accounts merged and even more so, ability to change one's email address used in the OTN, performance of the forum etc etc. Jive or whatever XYZ technology should be tweaked to provide what we need, as a tech guys/gals over the forum unlike Facebook where each one is "poking" others or "liking" their status. Hopefully, this would be done, at least to some extent but only time will tell.




                      • 8. Re: Upcoming Jive 7 upgrade

                        I figure not many people are interested in this subject, probably saying that it does not matter anyhow, or waiting to complain when it happens.

                        Not interested? Of course I'm intersted since I use the forum regularily. But do I really have to complain about the s...y editor in every new thread?

                        I will ignore the social things as much as possible and when it is no longer possible to hide personal information (I think e.g. followed content is a personal information) then I will stop using the forum.

                        This forum is a good source for knowledge but not the only one.




                        • 9. Re: Upcoming Jive 7 upgrade

                          I have also set privacy concerns as a threshold for using the forum. However, there is a difference for people who are newcomers and forum veterans. Just like Facebook, for instance, the forum can be addictive. Being addicted to something is never a good idea, but it certainly influences people acceptance levels, and what would otherwise be unacceptable becomes rather ignored.


                          There is also lack of awareness. How many users actually know that their followed items, forum activity and bookmarks are already public information? You can edit bookmarks and turn this off, btw. Or when you add friends to be able to send private messages, you are actually following each others forum activity? You can also follow other people without their knowledge. The forum system decides what information is considered confidential and does not inform you or allow you to customize it.


                          Oracle OTN writes it cares about your confidental data and all that, but how much does it really care in regard to Oracle's hidden agenda or own interests in running the community, and what is considered confidental data?

                          • 10. Re: Upcoming Jive 7 upgrade

                            Jive has shareholders, which only care about more profit. Therefore the same can probably be said for the Jive management. I absolutely agree with the features you have listed, which I would even consider basic requirements for a forum software. The problem though is, the focus of Jive is apparently not the forum software, and the product tries very hard to appear as an innovative product designed for the future social media needs of corporations and their partners. It fails to qualify as a product for a technical community based on its lack of features already, but it seems no other product exist in its category or makeing the same aggressive or suggestive marketing. For Oracle management the commuity is perhaps just an asset, and their question is how to get the most out of it.

                            • 11. Re: Upcoming Jive 7 upgrade

                              The wildebeests who call themselves stock market investors are currently stampeding away from tech stocks.  Market Meltdown: Tech Stock Slaughter Continues - TIME

                              • 12. Re: Upcoming Jive 7 upgrade

                                Thanks for the link. I actually spend some time every day analyzing what's going on and said goodbye to the US stock market already. When anything rises too quickly, it's usually a good idea to get out as every bubble will find its pin. Unfortunately, most people behave different, are greedy and typically loose in the end. The stock market in my opinion is manipulated anyway, pretty much everything to do with investments actually.

                                • 13. Re: Upcoming Jive 7 upgrade

                                  Its just so ironic that Jive is preparing software for future when in the 'present' times, its work is lacking the basic features. I guess we are going to get the Poking feature very soon but not really a good editor . Oh well, what would be life when everything becomes perfect, isn't it?




                                  • 14. Re: Upcoming Jive 7 upgrade

                                    Not sure about poking but endorsements have found its way into Jive 7.


                                    For what it's worth:

                                    Whats New In Jive 7

                                    Release notes


                                    Are there any good news, just for a change? Hello Oracle!


                                    Well, perhaps that there is an iOS app for iPhone and iPad. I was reading however that is requries iOS 7 at least , so it won't run on my old 3GS.

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