1 2 3 4 Previous Next 55 Replies Latest reply on Aug 7, 2018 3:11 PM by BluShadow Go to original post
      • 15. Re: When do we get reputation level certificate ?
        EdStevens

        amith.madisetty wrote:

         

        not fair

        What's not fair about it?

        Is a cheap "attaboy" certificate all that important to you?  As they used to say "that and ten-cents will get you a cup of coffee."  Of course now coffee is more expensive.

        • 16. Re: When do we get reputation level certificate ?
          Dude!

          It's not "not fair", it's unfair.

           

          I guess that makes free players 2nd class criticizes, but luckily it's all so funny, because aren't these titles sort of Mickey Mouse anyway?!

          • 17. Re: When do we get reputation level certificate ?
            BluShadow

            amith.madisetty wrote:

             

            not fair

             

             

            Of course it's fair.  You can't expect a business to give you access to their support engineers free of charge.

            They've provided the DevCommunity as a place where you can get support from peers around the world for free, but most of those people are not Oracle employees nor can they give official answers to questions.  To be honest though, I think the quality of expertise from peers around the world is better than what you get from support desk engineers in the company (and that's not just Oracle, that's any organisation).

             

            Even if you did have a certificate, what is it really worth?  If you came for an interview with my organisation and showed me that certificate I wouldn't take it as meaning anything much, except that you participate a lot on the community.  It's no measure of how much of an expert you are.  We get people on this community who post lots of times, but most of those are questions and issues, because they are not an expert, yet their number of posts has gained them sufficient points to give them "Guru" status in the gamification system.  As Dude says, they are sort of Mickey Mouse titles.  The real sign of an expert is to make a name for yourself and publish articles that showcase your expertise i.e. get yourself known in the wider community.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 18. Re: When do we get reputation level certificate ?
              amith.madisetty

              Very much true..!! Well said !! i was thinking i will get more than a certificate from Oracle, as someone told me that i would get voucher for oracle certification..!! which is why i was behind it.

               

              Thanks

              • 19. Re: When do we get reputation level certificate ?
                BluShadow

                Maybe they do offer such things, I'm not sure.  Whilst I have access to MOSC myself, I rarely post on there as most of the good activity is over here. 

                • 20. Re: When do we get reputation level certificate ?
                  Dude!

                  I think your comment or questioning the value of these certificates on a general level wouldn't be fair. At a certain level, it certainly is a measure of expertise and talent. You won't make it into a forum leaderboard or get 100000 points without having some keen technical knowledge in some area, or not knowing how to ascertain and solve problems and provide answers, as well as communication experience.

                   

                  I agree that "grand master" or even level 9 doesn't mean much, unlike what people may normally assume, but that's because gamification and getting points for mere participation has destroyed any useful reputation. In my opinion it's a lame attempt to get people to participate on false pretense or promise at the cost of those people who have been participating in the community for many years. I think people very often join the community in full anticipation of getting something in return to show for, and leave a few month later when they realize it isn't worth the effort.

                   

                  Why should experience in the community and a reasonable certificate not be useful for job hunting or show your level of expertise? Well, I can give you one reason, which is that there is resistance and ignorance coming from some people holding other certifications or achievements.

                  • 21. Re: When do we get reputation level certificate ?
                    BluShadow

                    Well, as someone who's sat in on interviews with prospective employees, I know we wouldn't take a certificate on face value.  People can buy certificates on the internet, or create their own official looking ones.  The only way to test expertise would be to test the person and research their actual background.

                    • 22. Re: When do we get reputation level certificate ?
                      Dude!

                      Yes, it's incredible what gets faked these days, even RMA-223 . That's common sense skepticism considering, but having a certificate or not may help you to get an interview in the first place.

                       

                      Certificates shouldn't be easy to fake and contain elements that makes forgery a felony, such as faking or using a signature without permission. Regarding the buying of certificates, corporations like Oracle can provide methods to verify certificates online, as they do with OCP, for example.

                       

                      The value of a certificate or certificate holder is another question. But that applies also to job titles and anything mentioned in CV, etc.

                      • 23. Re: When do we get reputation level certificate ?
                        EdStevens

                        Dude! wrote:

                         

                        Yes, it's incredible what gets faked these days, even RMA-223 . That's common sense skepticism considering, but having a certificate or not may help you to get an interview in the first place.

                         

                        Certificates shouldn't be easy to fake and contain elements that makes forgery a felony, such as faking or using a signature without permission. Regarding the buying of certificates, corporations like Oracle can provide methods to verify certificates online, as they do with OCP, for example.

                         

                        The value of a certificate or certificate holder is another question. But that applies also to job titles and anything mentioned in CV, etc.

                        Well, there are certificates, and then there are "certificates".

                         

                        If I were interviewing, or even just screening applicants for an interview, I'd give someone with an OCP a closer look, while at the same time fully realizing that there are a lot of OCP's out there who can't seem to find their backside with both hands and a map.  The OCP might get them an interview, but I'd still grill them on their experience and expertise.  But if someone put on their CV that they were "certified" as a participant in some forum, I'd most likely toss that application in the round file.  If a serious professional thought that an 'attaboy' participation certificate was even worth mentioning in a job application (or much of anywhere else) it would cause me to seriously question their judgment. While there is certainly 'professional development' value in forum participation, that's the kind of thing I'd expect to come out in an interview, not a highlighted item to get an interview.  And even if it came out in an interview, I'd be more impressed by the candidate simply stating (in response to the appropriate question) that they are a regular participant/contributor to the forum, than if they bragged about having participation certificate.  And I'd follow up by going to the forum and examining their activity.

                        • 24. Re: When do we get reputation level certificate ?
                          Dude!

                          I paid for my OCP out of my own expense and own time. I consider it an investment. Now with the 12c to 18c jump, my certifications have suddenly aged by decades, and I have no plans for another round, but according to my own experience, OCP is not something you can achieve by cheating or using brain dumps. Certification questions and answers are very tricky. What you can buy or find on the web is usually wrong and just a guarantee for failure.

                           

                          Regarding to toast or screen job applicants, that's perhaps OK to a certain point as far as making acquaintances concern, but you may have B players playing in A player slots, who wouldn't want to hire anyone who are potentially better than themselves.

                           

                          But if someone put on their CV that they were "certified" as a participant in some forum, I'd most likely toss that application in the round file.

                          Is that how you see hour own participation here? I see it more relaxed. And why not? What is wrong about showing years of forum participation and solving thousands of other people's technical problems? In my opinion, it demonstrates talent, dedication and experience, certainly more compared to someone having some glorified senior job title and pushing the same buttons for 10 years.

                           

                          If Oracle would provide a certificate worth mentioning, as a result of community participation, that could be used, not like the silly "Guru" letter, I would be happy to use it - whatever helps.

                          • 25. Re: When do we get reputation level certificate ?
                            EdStevens

                            Dude! wrote:

                             

                            I paid for my OCP out of my own expense and own time. I consider it an investment. Now with the 12c to 18c jump, my certifications have suddenly aged by decades, and I have no plans for another round, but according to my own experience, OCP is not something you can achieve by cheating or using brain dumps. Certification questions and answers are very tricky. What you can buy or find on the web is usually wrong and just a guarantee for failure.

                            Agreed, up to a point.

                            I agree that legitimately passing the OCP should be a positive indicator.  I know I worked hard to prepare, attending the requisite course by an authorized OU provider, followed by several weeks of hard study with the authorized prep materials and practice tests, making a point of NOT memorizing answers but delving into the references to understand the principles involved.  And even then there were a lot of questions on the actual exam that left me thinking "where the h*** did THAT come from?  I'm toast."  But I passed.

                             

                            That said, we all know there are 'dumps' and even un-authorized "institutions" offering OCP prep courses.  I don't know about anyone else, but I know that I have no way of measuring the "success" rate of these.  But I do know that we see on the forums people touting their OCP in their signature line, but the nature of their questions/comments/solutions leaves one scratching one's head, thinking "how did this guy pass an OCP exam?"

                             

                             

                             

                            Regarding to toast or screen job applicants, that's perhaps OK to a certain point as far as making acquaintances concern, but you may have B players playing in A player slots, who wouldn't want to hire anyone who are potentially better than themselves.

                             

                            But if someone put on their CV that they were "certified" as a participant in some forum, I'd most likely toss that application in the round file.

                            Is that how you see hour own participation here? I see it more relaxed. And why not? What is wrong about showing years of forum participation and solving thousands of other people's technical problems? In my opinion, it demonstrates talent, dedication and experience, certainly more compared to someone having some glorified senior job title and pushing the same buttons for 10 years.

                             

                            If Oracle would provide a certificate worth mentioning, as a result of community participation, that could be used, not like the silly "Guru" letter, I would be happy to use it - whatever helps.

                             

                            I probably over-simplified my comments on that.  I was thinking of the guy who bullet-points on his CV that he "earned" a forum participation certificate, as if that alone means anything.  Now if he were to say something like "Active participant in OTN User Forum since <some date>, recognized as having provided other participants with correct answers <n> times."  I might take notice.  And notice that there is nothing there about any "certification", but rather a quantification of his participation AND peer-recognition, aside from any gamification points.

                            • 26. Re: When do we get reputation level certificate ?
                              Dude!

                              But regarding your last paragraph.... how do you quantify or document this, from a practical point. What currently exists to measure or indicate peer-recognition and all that beside certificates, leaderboards and points?

                              • 27. Re: When do we get reputation level certificate ?
                                EdStevens

                                Dude! wrote:

                                 

                                But regarding your last paragraph.... how do you quantify or document this, from a practical point. What currently exists to measure or indicate peer-recognition and all that beside certificates, leaderboards and points?

                                Good question.  And unfortunately there is no good answer. 

                                 

                                I'm just thinking these things through as we write, so am open to persuasion.  I would still tend to consider it a negative if someone were to  tout their participation certificate (especially without any additional context) as if it, in itself, were indicative of very much.  By contrast, mentioning an OCP (in spite of my reservations on that) or better, OCM, pretty much stands on it's own.  Perhaps, in contrast to my earlier remark, it would not of itself be disqualifying, but I'd still tend to question the candidate's qualifications if he felt that participation certificate were a highlight of his career.

                                • 28. Re: When do we get reputation level certificate ?
                                  Dude!

                                  Maybe because you evaluate it based on your own forum experience and participation. Personally I don't see something wrong if someone puts "grand master certificate" in their CV. Unless you know what it means, and I doubt most employers will, you may even get an interview out of curiosity. But anyway, it opens room for further questions and can help to find out more about the person. When applying for an IT job, it can be an indicator and is perhaps more relevant than other things you may have done in your life.

                                  • 29. Re: When do we get reputation level certificate ?
                                    EdStevens

                                    Dude! wrote:

                                     

                                    Maybe because you evaluate it based on your own forum experience and participation. Personally I don't see something wrong if someone puts "grand master certificate" in their CV. Unless you know what it means, and I doubt most employers will, you may even get an interview out of curiosity. But anyway, it opens room for further questions and can help to find out more about the person. When applying for an IT job, it can be an indicator and is perhaps more relevant than other things you may have done in your life.

                                    Point taken.