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    My Installation of Oracle Database XE 18c took ~30 minutes - Is it normal?

    RedWhiteNBlue

      I've just downloaded and installed Oracle Database XE 18c onto my Windows 10 PC. I choose to install it on a traditional magnetic hard disk drive just because I know that my system SSD has limited writes to begin with and has a much smaller capacity. I'm guessing, but I would say the installation took approximately 30 minutes having looked at the creation time of the related folders. Is this normal for given my choice of installation location (on a spinning platter) and all other factors I have already mentioned?

       

      I wonder if Oracle is working on improvements and optimizations for the installation process. Although, it's probably not the highest priority since installations are kind of a one-off it would have been nice if it had installed a bit quicker.

        • 1. Re: My Installation of Oracle Database XE 18c took ~30 minutes - Is it normal?
          thatJeffSmith-Oracle

          It's normal, more or less.

           

          There's debate of features over ease-of-install/time to get running. For 18c, people voted to have ALL features. So the install got 'bigger' and more complicated.

           

          Also, you can have a new database (Always Free Autonomous) running in the Oracle Cloud in about 3 minutes, so it's not impossible to get a free Oracle Database, quickly.

           

          Keep sharing your expectations and input - people here are observing/reading...even, reacting to make things better going forward.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: My Installation of Oracle Database XE 18c took ~30 minutes - Is it normal?
            RedWhiteNBlue

            Thanks for your response. In retrospect, I'm pretty happy with the experience overall. I think it was just taking longer than I had expected. But I'm not really complaining, just observing. I could have installed to SSD and I'm assuming that if I had made that choice the installation would have finished much quicker.

             

            I am curious about the comments you made with regard to a debate over what people want most. Can't you give everybody what they want by simply making the installations more choice friendly? Features of software products have been offered as choices for years. It's a little odd to think Oracle views the scenario as an all or nothing situation. It doesn't have to be that way. Make the installer choice friendly. I mean, I'm not saying offer the user 300 choices. But the tradeoff between installing all features or saving hard disk space is kind of a general trend in software installation applications.

            • 3. Re: My Installation of Oracle Database XE 18c took ~30 minutes - Is it normal?
              GregV

              Well 30 minutes for Windblows isn't that terrible I'd say, especially if you're doing on a spinning disk. I prefer to use VirtualBox to create a Linux VM that would accomodate the Oracle product. Using Oracle on Windows is a pain.

              • 4. Re: My Installation of Oracle Database XE 18c took ~30 minutes - Is it normal?
                EdStevens

                RedWhiteNBlue wrote:

                 

                Thanks for your response. In retrospect, I'm pretty happy with the experience overall. I think it was just taking longer than I had expected. But I'm not really complaining, just observing. I could have installed to SSD and I'm assuming that if I had made that choice the installation would have finished much quicker.

                 

                I am curious about the comments you made with regard to a debate over what people want most. Can't you give everybody what they want by simply making the installations more choice friendly? Features of software products have been offered as choices for years. It's a little odd to think Oracle views the scenario as an all or nothing situation. It doesn't have to be that way. Make the installer choice friendly. I mean, I'm not saying offer the user 300 choices. But the tradeoff between installing all features or saving hard disk space is kind of a general trend in software installation applications.

                Don't think SSD is some silver bullet for disk performance.  Depending on its design and configuration, there is liklely little to no gain for write operations.  The read operations is where it can shine.  Modern SSD in a modern SAN will have designs and methods to overcome the inherent write penalty, but I'd be somewhat surprised if that were true of a desktop class machine.

                 

                I agree with Greg's comments about creating a vm and running oracle on linux within that vm.  Windblows is a cruel joke.

                • 5. Re: My Installation of Oracle Database XE 18c took ~30 minutes - Is it normal?
                  RedWhiteNBlue

                  I'm very surprised at your response. I remember reading an article once that said the slowest of SSDs is at least 3x as fast as the fastest of spinning platters. That's just facts. Remember, I asked the question in the context of an installation as well. An install, in most cases I would think, is nothing more than copying lots of files from one location to another. Of course, there is the decompression of those files as the same time which on a modern PC (Ryzen 2400G here)  shouldn't be much of an issue.

                   

                  I watched the Windows Task Manager as the install was in motion. The hard disk activity for the target drive of the installation dropped to virtually zero several times during the install process. What could be going on at those moments? Decompression of files? Yes. I'm not sure what else.

                   

                  I've already installed Oracle's Express Edition on my Windows 10 machine and I'm fairly happy with things as they are. SQL Plus seems very responsive. The SQL Developer GUI feels a bit sluggish.

                   

                  Right now, all this is just for learning and experimenting so that I can pass the 1Z0-071 exam. But if I ever did feel the need for much more performance I'll keep in your suggestions in mind.

                   

                  If you could provide more context for your dislike of Windows that would be nice.

                  • 6. Re: My Installation of Oracle Database XE 18c took ~30 minutes - Is it normal?
                    EdStevens

                    RedWhiteNBlue wrote:

                     

                    I'm very surprised at your response. I remember reading an article once that said the slowest of SSDs is at least 3x as fast as the fastest of spinning platters. That's just facts.

                    Maybe its the facts, maybe not.  Since you didn't cite your source, it is impossible to get a good peer review.There's a lot of junk and mis-information out there.  At best, I'd guess that the "facts" are a measure that represents some aggregate.  The true fact is that SSD does exact a fairly severe write penalty.  For most applications that is more than offset (in the aggregate) by the improved read performance.

                     

                    But regardless, you were installing to HDD.  And in the end, regardless of SSD or spinning rust, the performance is what it is.  And as at least two other well repected participants have said, 30 minutes on a consumer class machine dosn't seem out of line.

                     

                     

                    If you could provide more context for your dislike of Windows that would be nice.

                    We don't have the time.  I'll just say that I've been in this business since before PC's.  I'v supported Oracle on Windows since Oracle 7.3 on Windows 3.11, and did that before I ever say my first *nix machine.  And I've supported Oracle on every version of Windows since, as well as on Solaris, HP-UX and Linux.  Given that I should have a natural affinity for Windows, but at a certain point very early in my *nix learning curve, it was like a light went on.  Now I fInd that Windows fan bois tend to not like *nix because they don't understand it, while *nix admins tent to not like Windows because they DO understand it.

                    • 7. Re: My Installation of Oracle Database XE 18c took ~30 minutes - Is it normal?
                      RedWhiteNBlue

                      I've been using PCs for years myself and the only other software on my PC that probably took as long to install "could have been" Microsoft's Visual Studio software.

                       

                      So, I wholeheartedly agree. The 30 minutes required to install the Oracle Database software is very reasonable and not out of line. It's not a typical application install. It's a big deal.

                       

                      I've been using it over 3 weeks now without any real issues at all including the SQL Developer GUI but mostly SQL Plus because of how responsive it feels on Windows 10 versus the SQL Developer GUI.

                      • 9. Re: My Installation of Oracle Database XE 18c took ~30 minutes - Is it normal?
                        RedWhiteNBlue

                        Thanks for the tip. It looks nice. I've downloaded it and I tried connecting to the XEPDB1 database using it. I couldn't figure it out tonight. So, I'll try again tomorrow.

                         

                        I remember the first day I got the Oracle Database Express Edition installed. I couldn't figure out how to connect to anything that day either. I'll figure it all out though. I just need a few days. The connection syntax seems to be a bit different.

                        • 10. Re: My Installation of Oracle Database XE 18c took ~30 minutes - Is it normal?
                          Glen Conway

                          If you normally connect using net aliases from a tnsnames.ora file, SQLcl does actually search for it, and in the following default order:

                          1. Your Windows user home
                          2. The folder pointed to by the TNS_ADMIN environment variable
                          3. The folder pointed to by the ORACLE_HOME environment variable

                           

                          You can check this by running

                          sql /nolog
                          show tns
                          

                          Of course, any undefined environment variable is skipped.

                           

                          Doing a "show tns" from a SQL Developer worksheet behaves differently, looking first in the Tnsnames Directory in the Database > Advanced preference, then in your Windows user home.

                           

                          Cheers

                          • 11. Re: My Installation of Oracle Database XE 18c took ~30 minutes - Is it normal?
                            thatJeffSmith-Oracle

                            Should be the same as SQLPlus

                             

                            But sure fire way is EZ Connect syntax

                             

                            SQL user/pwd@server:port/service

                            • 12. Re: My Installation of Oracle Database XE 18c took ~30 minutes - Is it normal?
                              RedWhiteNBlue

                              Thanks for all the help. I actually got the idea to try and connect using part of your post, Jeff. I used exactly what I did when connecting to SQL Plus: username/password@XEPDB1; The thing that was throwing me for a loop was how the Oracle CL was explicitly throwing out prompts at me (from the beginning) so I thought I had to conform and supply just that data in each prompt. Of course, I only have about a month's worth of experience at this point in the Oracle RDBMS universe so any little thing can throw me off by a mile. Although now, once I'm connected through the SQL Plus software I feel a bit like a SQL Plus Ninja. But that's probably just a comparison to how I feel using Oracle CL right now.

                               

                              ***EDIT***: The exact same syntax doesn't work between the two applications. I'm not sure why. Can anybody give me a hint? One account does but not the built-in default sys/oracle combination. https://i.imgur.com/5a67vJa.png

                              ***EDIT***: Ctrl-C exits the application? Inconsistent behavior between SQL Plus and SQL CL. Not good. Is this a bug?

                              • 13. Re: My Installation of Oracle Database XE 18c took ~30 minutes - Is it normal?
                                Glen Conway

                                Short answer:  Try "connect sys/oracle@localhost:1521/orcl as sysdba" or "connect sys/oracle@localhost:1521/xepdb1 as sysdba", pretty much as Jeff suggested.

                                 

                                Long answer:  First, let me post here the image from the link in your last post...

                                Capture.JPG

                                It shows that SQL*PLus can connect just fine to a local install of 18c without using the Oracle Net Listener, often referred to as the TNS listener.

                                 

                                In fact, if you have a properly configured environment, SQLcl can also connect without going through the listener.  Here is an 11gXE example for both:

                                Capture.JPG

                                 

                                Anyway, back to the errors shown in your image.  The "no ocijdbc19 in java.library.path" occurs because SQLcl 19.4 ships with a 19.3 JDBC (Thin) driver, but 18c XE comes with some 18.x version of both the OCI/Thick and Thin drivers.

                                 

                                You could install Oracle Instant Client 19 and configure ORACLE_HOME and the PATH environment variable to use that instead. But if you had tried Jeff's suggestion to use Easy Connect Naming (which employees the thin JDBC driver), the entire issue of SQLcl client and Oracle client JDBC driver version compatibility would have been avoided.

                                 

                                Finally, looking at the SQLcl attempt to connect with the OCI/Thick driver in your image, SQLcl detects a service called "orcl" (or maybe that is just some default?),which is why my "Short answer" suggests

                                connect sys/oracle@localhost:1521/orcl as sysdba

                                or

                                connect sys/oracle@localhost:1521/xepdb1 as sysdba

                                rather than

                                connect sys/oracle@localhost:1521/xe as sysdba

                                as you may have tried.

                                 

                                Edit:  On the other hand, one of your earlier posts mentioned the XEPDB1 database.  To verify which database you are connect to via SQL*Plus, why don't you run either

                                SELECT * FROM v$instance;
                                -- or
                                SELECT sys_context('USERENV','DB_NAME') AS Instance
                                FROM dual;
                                

                                The sys_context approach works even if you have no privilege to select on v$instance.  Much better though, from the OS command line, would be to run "lsnrctl status" to list which services are accessible.  This does not work with 11g XE (required message files got stripped out, so the lsnrctl commands fail), but the 18c XE doc says lsnrctl works, so perhaps it actually does.

                                 

                                Cheers

                                • 14. Re: My Installation of Oracle Database XE 18c took ~30 minutes - Is it normal?
                                  RedWhiteNBlue

                                  I don't know if I mentioned this in my original post but I'm on Windows 10. I copied'n'pasted the two strings you posted into the Oracle CL command-line prompts. Once I'm actually connected to the database as a user I just issue the SHOW CON_NAME command. Here's the results:

                                  5dNA2Ea.png

                                  I'm not real sure what happened to the image. Sometimes it shows up and sometimes it doesn't.

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