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      • 120. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
        12cdb
        But no conclusion yet, most people are complaining about price/cost of the courses which Oracle is making mandatory to achieve get G* tiles like OCM, OCP etc.
        • 121. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
          damorgan
          Richard will be in Seattle July 14-18 (www.oracledays.com) along with 4 other Oakies: Kyle Hailey, Tom Kyte, Jonathan Lewis, and Jeremiah Wilton and more than a half-dozen Aces. If you are learning a lot from this ... consider joining us for the live version.

          I will be bringing some Miracle beer I picked up in Denmark a few weeks ago. <g>
          • 122. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
            Jonathan Lewis
            Richard, you are the most disagreeable and
            argumentative fellow I've ever met in DBA work. . . .
            If I said "black is black", you would no doubt argue
            that "black is white".
            I object - that's what you said about me in your infantile posting on "biased test cases".

            Yes, and while I removed it (so as not to get n00bs
            in over their heads), the first statement remains as
            great advice for senior DBA's, my primary audience.
            So senior DBAs are your primary audience - but when I point out the errors and deficiencies in your articles you claim that they aren't errors merely simplications to avoid confusing new DBAs. You can't have it both ways.

            >
            Yup, the docs suck. What else is new?
            Yet you run to them, and metalink, to dredge up anything that might support your arguments when your errors are highlighted. So, does the Oracle documentation suck, or is it the definitive source of information. You can' have it both ways.

            Jonathan Lewis
            http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com
            http://web.mail.demon.net
            • 123. Re: My thoughts on OCP
              Eduardo Legatti
              Hi Hector,

              >>There is something strange with my Blog, if you click on the link of the latest published article, the left navigation bar appears. Why? I don't know.
              I have noticed that that only difference about your last published article "When I was trying to install and setup an Enterpri..." and others is that it doesn't have a title. Could be this the source of the problem?

              Cheers

              Legatti
              • 124. Re: My thoughts on OCP
                Eduardo Legatti
                Hi Francisco,

                >>If you have a certification and a good experience, you will have a great advantage against the competition (only good experience, or only a certification).
                I totally agree with you. In addition to that, I have seen job interviewers which they are not worried about whether a candidate is a good technician or not. Currently they are also worried not only about the candidate's personality (responsible, cautious, cheerful, sympathetic, trustworthy, etc...), but also if a candidate has another qualities like if the candidate is able to work as a team. In this case, I think that get a certificate (OCA, OCP...) can help a lot a candidate in a job interview. By the way, of course that a candidate should have prove your real life experience as DBA, etc...

                Cheers

                Legatti
                • 125. Re: My thoughts on OCP
                  639907
                  Hi Eduardo,

                  It's right! Inclusive one year ago I hired a excellent DBA, with great knowledge and certifications, but his personality was terrible, he don't know nothing about team work, for him everyone bellow his knowledge are stupid, and don't deserve his time or attention. I was forced to fire him after 3 months. This situation proves one more time that not always everything that shines is gold.

                  In my opinion a good” DBA” is a person with excellent character, love shares his knowledge, and loves help other fellows improve their oracle skills. We have only one goal "our client’s satisfaction" and we need to help and work likes a real team to archive this goal.

                  Also Eduardo, I hope still exist on Belo Horizonte the "Doce Doce" to eat a fantastic coxinha com catupiry or a excelent pao de queijo. ;)

                  Cheers,

                  Francisco Munoz Alvarez
                  • 126. Re: My thoughts on OCP
                    jgarry
                    You may want to read my previous posting on what I
                    think about achieving a good balance of -->
                    Re: My thoughts on OCP from my instructor and consultant
                    point of view.

                    ~ Madrid
                    http://hrivera99.blogspot.com
                    I meant to acknowledge and second that in my post, but work interfered :-)
                    • 127. Re: My thoughts on OCP
                      jgarry
                      Hi Eduardo,

                      It's right! Inclusive one year ago I hired a
                      excellent DBA, with great knowledge and
                      certifications, but his personality was terrible, he
                      don't know nothing about team work, for him everyone
                      bellow his knowledge are stupid, and don't deserve
                      his time or attention. I was forced to fire him after
                      3 months. This situation proves one more time that
                      not always everything that shines is gold.
                      I once was in a large .mil shop, and would be surprised when people came from another site and, once they learned I was a DBA, would become deferential to the point of sillyness. I never met the guy, but he sure had his developers trained. I, on the other hand, had the attitude of "let the developers do what they will, and we can herd them in as we do integration testing. Then defend prod with extremism." Years later, I would still hear good things about me from those folk, at unexpected times.

                      >
                      In my opinion a good” DBA” is a person with excellent
                      character, love shares his knowledge, and loves help
                      other fellows improve their oracle skills. We have
                      only one goal "our client’s satisfaction" and we need
                      to help and work likes a real team to archive this
                      goal.
                      It all boils down to management and corporate culture. As it happens, some places need a dba from hell.

                      >
                      Also Eduardo, I hope still exist on Belo Horizonte
                      the "Doce Doce" to eat a fantastic coxinha com
                      catupiry or a excelent pao de queijo. ;)
                      catupiry? Is that like well-aged catproc? :-)
                      • 128. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                        108476
                        the single most respected group of Oracle database technologists are the members of the Oak Table network.
                        Balderdash.

                        I know hundreds of DBA's who have more respect than their members, many of them in this forum . . . .

                        Why are people quitting the Oak Table? Here is what one ex-Oak member said, and it's hardly respectful, quite the contrary:

                        "The scientific minutiae, however "true" they might be, would merely confuse; the bold, sweeping statement, however simplistic, will nevertheless explain, despite the bold, sweeping statement not being technically accurate.

                        I simplify like that every time I'm in the training room, and most times I post to c.d.o.s: but it is clearly incompatible with the pure science of Oracle espoused by the Oak Table."

                        Oakies run real-world tests
                        Real-world? You mean "artificial", right?

                        I've never seen a single generalizable benchmark test. . . . . Instead, they publish contrived test cases, often with the specific intent to mis-lead, as did Lewis when he did not mention using the MTS on a contrived test of PGA behavior.

                        http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/untested.html
                        • 129. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                          jgarry
                          This is without doubt the best thread I have ever<p>
                          seen on the Oracle pages.<p>
                          You two should takes this show on the road, I'd pay<p>
                          to see it on stage! :-)
                          <p>
                          G, D & R
                          • 130. Re: My thoughts on OCP
                            108476
                            Hi Eduardo,
                            Currently they are also worried not only about the candidate's personality (responsible, cautious, cheerful, sympathetic, trustworthy, etc...)
                            Yes! Great point! There are more fruits and nuts in the Oracle profession than in all of California:

                            http://www.dba-oracle.com/t_narcissistic_personality_disorders.htm

                            Oracle people with narcissistic personality disorders "don't play well with others". Just check the examples of people trying to de-rail this thread, for examples . . . .

                            *****************************************************************
                            if the candidate is able to work as a team.
                            Good point. Technical skiils are often secondary to the ability to listen and learn . . .

                            But foremost of all, excellent communications skills are the most important, IMHO . . . .
                            • 131. Re: My thoughts on OCP
                              108476
                              Hi Francisco,
                              everyone bellow his knowledge are stupid, and don't deserve his time or attention.
                              Good point.

                              Personally, I think that many of the narcissists that I meet in the Oracle profession got their low self esteem from being picked-on as the class "geek", and the behaviors of many narcissist's that I've seen remind me of the "98 pound weaklings" that I used to see getting teased and tormented in the playground.

                              Now, I'm not a psychologist, but I've noticed that it's helpful to have an understanding of the motivators of various personality types, especially narcissistic personality disorders. I firmly believe in Personality profiling for Business Success,

                              http://www.dba-oracle.com/t_personality_profiling_business_success.htm

                              By personality profiling, I don't have to fire anyone . . . .

                              These are the characteristics that I look out for:

                              - Rigid, inflexible thinking - Anyone with a different approach is seen as personally attacking the narcissist. Rules rule, and some narcissists get inappropriately angry when they see little things, like grammar errors. I knew a narcissistic computer programmer who would refuse to answer any e-mail that used non-accepted word abbreviations! - ("My way is the ONLY RIGHT way and any other way is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG").

                              - Cannot be wrong - The narcissist is never, ever wrong, and they like to present "proofs" that they are correct. The narcissist cannot accept responsibility for making a mistake and they are expert at diverting the blame to others - ("It's not my fault. I lost that promotion because my team let me down").

                              - Arrogant, boastful and pretentious - These are people with stupid/fake certificates and awards on their walls, the kind of people who exaggerate their accomplishments or use inflated job titles like "Engineer, Physicist" in their resume job histories. - (i.e. "I'm a Sanitation Engineer"). This narcissistic trait is especially prevalent in Oracle people elevate themselves to "expert" status, and then treat people in a demeaning way when they get questions.

                              - Aggressive responses to criticism - ("How dare he criticize me? That lying retard, I swear I'll get even, if it takes years").
                              • 132. Re: My thoughts on OCP
                                Eduardo Legatti
                                Hi Francisco,

                                >>In my opinion a good” DBA” is a person with excellent character, love shares his knowledge, and loves help other fellows improve their oracle skills. We have only one goal "our client’s satisfaction" and we need to help and work likes a real team to archive this goal.
                                That's the point.

                                >>Also Eduardo, I hope still exist on Belo Horizonte the "Doce Doce" to eat a fantastic coxinha com catupiry or a excelent pao de queijo. ;)
                                It's nice hear from you that you have came visited [url http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belo_Horizonte]Belo Horizonte. I'm not sure if "Doce Doce" still exists. Currently, Belo Horizonte is the city with the highest number of bars in the world and because of that the best time to come here (for pleasure) is for the eighth annual "Comida di Buteco" competition in April, when some 40 of the top bars square off in categories like hygiene, beer frigidity, service and most importantly, best "tira-gosto" or appetizer ... ;-)

                                Cheers

                                Legatti
                                • 133. Re: My thoughts on OCP
                                  Eduardo Legatti
                                  Hi Don,

                                  >>But foremost of all, excellent communications skills are the most important, IMHO . . . .
                                  Exactly. Actually, If we open to experience, we are ready to challenge ourselves, learn and welcome feedback from others, then we'll not only learn far more, but we'll also be perceived as a pleasant persons by others who will be more ready to work with us ...

                                  >>Oracle people with narcissistic personality disorders "don't play well with others"
                                  I agree. In addition, I think that if we choose a career that doesn't suit our personality we also become confused, unhappy, etc...

                                  Cheers

                                  Legatti
                                  • 134. Re: My thoughts on OCP
                                    Eduardo Legatti
                                    Hi Joel,

                                    >>catupiry? Is that like well-aged catproc? :-)
                                    LOL. In fact, Catupiry (pronounced /kɑːtuːˈpɪrɪ/ in English) is a popular type of "cream cheese" in Brazil and it is commonly used as a filling (together with shredded chicken) in the ubiquitous "coxinhas" at snack bars, used as an element in main dishes, or sometimes as an extra topping on pizza ;-)

                                    Cheers

                                    Legatti