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      • 135. Re: My thoughts on OCP
        Jonathan Lewis
        >
        Aggressive responses to criticism -
        Things like this, for example:
        http://marist89.blogspot.com/2005/05/bbb-part-deux.html

        which was caused by the activity described here:
        http://marist89.blogspot.com/2005/05/bbb.html


        Jonathan Lewis
        http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com
        http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk
        • 136. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
          damorgan
          Don ... you wrote:
          "I know hundreds of DBA's who have more respect than their members, many of them in this forum . . . ."

          Name some. If they are so highly respected then I am sure we would all like to know who they are.

          Don ... you wrote:

          "Why are people quitting the Oak Table?"

          People? Name names. I'm sure we would all like to know who they are. And, if you are going to quote someone, then post their name. If you are going to quote someone you owe it to everyone to provide the appropriate attribution.
          • 137. Re: My thoughts on OCP
            Madrid
            Thank you Eduardo for your suggestions, it looks like the left navigation bar is back again. It looks like it was a temporary issue due to the browser's cache.

            Best Regards
            • 138. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
              Madrid
              But no conclusion yet, most people are complaining
              about price/cost of the courses which Oracle is
              making mandatory to achieve get G* tiles like OCM,
              OCP etc.
              Yes it is all about the amount of money. May be there it won't be a conclussion about this, since this is beyond the reach of any of the posters here in this thread or in this forum, it obeys a simple offer/demand law. If there are companies who appreciate the certifications, then there it wil still be professionals who will be looking for the credentials, and if there is no other certificate authority who is capable of position itself as an opposite force to the Oracle Certification Credentials, then the monopoly is still hold by Oracle, and the rules of the monopoly apply. The only choice for the people is to take it as is, or leave it, which so far could be the a first conclusion to this thread.


              ~ Madrid

              http://hrivera99.blogspot.com/
              • 139. Re: My thoughts on OCP
                Madrid
                Hi Eduardo,

                It's right! Inclusive one year ago I hired a
                excellent DBA, with great knowledge and
                certifications, but his personality was terrible,
                he
                don't know nothing about team work, for him
                everyone
                bellow his knowledge are stupid, and don't
                deserve
                his time or attention. I was forced to fire him
                after
                3 months. This situation proves one more time that
                not always everything that shines is gold.
                I could say this guy suffered from a narcissistic personality and for this guy standing on the top of a brick was enough to feel himself as a superior guy, but one problem with this kind of mental disorders is that their ego is so heavy that moves their centroids and it makes them fall due to their own lack of equilibrium, which doesn't have to do anything with the fact of being or not certified.

                We all will have different opinions of what a good DBA is or isn't. IMO a good DBA is the one who has the work done according to the organization criteria. Actually the certificate won't make a difference in order to achieve the goal, but as I have previously stated, the fact of being or not certified greatly helps the employer to easy their life trying to select the right candidate. I don't suggest certificate to be the single filter to select the right candidate, but I can tell you, as an employer, it has helped me to more easily differentiate a candidate.


                ~ Madrid

                http://hrivera99.blogspot.com/
                • 140. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                  429475
                  Looks like the Hot Topics in Seattle will be "How to Cut Mr.Don" :-)
                  • 141. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                    108476
                    Name some.
                    OK, how about ALL of the best-selling Oracle authors of all-time?

                    http://www.dba-oracle.com/oracle_news/2006_04_19_bestselling_oracle_authors.htm

                    Niemiec, Loney, Feuerstein, Gennick, Scott Urman, none of them in this "most highly respected" society. Gee, even Dr. Morgan did not join their group. . . .

                    And lets not forget the respected people here on OTN, like Hector Rivera (Madrid), Eduarto Legatti, Justin Cave from MIT, Andy Kerber from West Point, and many, many other respected OTN people who have no need to join any elitist societies. . .

                    *************************************************************
                    "Why are people quitting the Oak Table?"
                    http://www.dba-oracle.com/oracle_news/2005_5_2_art_science_craft.htm

                    "The Oak Table Network. I had high hopes in the past, but when I was at the recent UK OUG conference I attended a couple of Q&As and the like and the participants sounded as self-serving and unscientific of opinion as the people they profess to challenge."


                    *************************************************************

                    Of course, you posted about your "event".

                    I just want to be clear, all the money from "Oracle Days" goes to benefit the PSOUG membership, right? As an officer of PSOUG, you would never consider using your office to line your pockets with cash, right?

                    Regardless, PLEASE STOP trying to de-rail this thread.

                    Your posts in this thread are irrelevant to the thread topic, self-promoting & juvenile (the Frat Boy "we have beer" reference" which was pure P. T. Barnum). But most of all, irrelevant posts are highly inconsiderate the the Original Poster and those who are interested in duscussing this topic.

                    Please respect the OP and stop this off-topic content.

                    Message was edited by:
                    burleson
                    • 142. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                      108476
                      Looks like the Hot Topics in Seattle will be "How to Cut Mr.Don" :-)
                      It would not be the first time. . .

                      Once, an Oak Table person contacted my publisher, demanding that an article be removed because he had discovered an obscure exception!

                      Seriously, this guy believed that if you dredge-up a rare exception to the rule, no matter how obscure or ridiculous, that it "proves" that the whole concept is "all wrong".

                      There are some people who don't seem to understand that Oracle is just a set of computer programs, not a science!

                      What's next, the MS-Word scientist?

                      This illustrates another important aspect to a good DBA, not having a “group mentality”. There is an old saying that goes:

                      "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

                      I've seen this apply to Oracle professionals who join "Mutual Admiration Societies". To me, it seems that these personality types have deep-seated feeling of inadequacy, and compensate by joining fraternities and societies to increase their self-esteem. Part of this behavior is approval seeking, whereby the new zealot blindly follows the pontifications of the opinion leader of the club. I'm always suspicous of any resume' with lots of fraternal organizations listed.

                      The Method "A" zealots close their eyes to the Method "B" zealots, and each has no respect the opinions and experiences of the other group.

                      “ Oracle Zealots” will always try to disrupt threads, it’s how they get the self-affirmation that they so desperately need . . . .
                      • 143. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                        Aman....
                        Don,
                        I guess that thread has completely driven away from its original context.Isn't it?
                        Regards
                        Aman....
                        • 144. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                          Jonathan Lewis
                          >
                          One Oak Table person contacted my publisher demanding
                          that an article be removed because he had the
                          "proven" the article wrong! This maroon used a
                          contrived, artifical test case.

                          Serious, this guy believed that if you dredge-up some
                          obscure features and use them in a contrary
                          test-case, that you can "prove" that general concepts
                          are "all wrong" Oh Brother . . . .
                          You seem to be having trouble distinguishing between Tom Kyte and me - easy to do now that Tom has grown a beard, of course.

                          Tom Kyte contacted SearchOracle - although he didn't demand that the article be removed, he pointed out eight technical errors, demonstrated one of the errors, and suggested that they retract the artice to preserve their credibility. (For more details see the following: http://asktom.oracle.com/pls/asktom/f?p=100:11:0::::P11_QUESTION_ID:47466211228419 )

                          I wrote the critique that dredged up the obscure feature of shared servers (formerly MTS) to show how appallingly inappropriate the original opening remarks of the article were.


                          Jonathan Lewis
                          http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com
                          http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk
                          • 145. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                            Jonathan Lewis
                            >
                            Why are people quitting the Oak Table?
                            Observation: Howard Rogers left the Oak Table in 2005
                            Burleson deduction: People are leaving the Oak Table.

                            Burleson approach: I saw it once three years ago, it must be happening all the time.

                            Scientific approach: I've seen it once, I wonder if it happens more frequently, I wonder why it happens.

                            Which approach would you want a DBA or visiting consultant to use ?

                            Jonathan Lewis
                            http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com
                            http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk
                            • 146. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                              Jonathan Lewis
                              Don,
                              I guess that thread has completely driven away from its original context.Isn't it?
                              Aman,

                              There is little point in making a comment like that - Burleson will merely play the 'injured innocence' card.

                              This usually follows the line: "it wasn't my fault, someone else started it, someone else made me do it, I was only defending myself, etc. ...."

                              Regards
                              Jonathan Lewis
                              http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com
                              http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk
                              • 147. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                                Aman....
                                Sir,
                                I undestand. I shall not put any other coments as they may lead to kep the thread going on.
                                Best regards
                                Aman....
                                • 148. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                                  108476
                                  Hi Aman,
                                  I undestand. I shall not put any other coments as they may lead to kep the thread going on.
                                  No, don't let the trolls chase you off. . . .

                                  This is a great topic, on-point and germane to all Oracle professionals.

                                  I wish they would implement an "ignore" button on OTN . . .
                                  • 149. Re: My thoughts on OCP
                                    108476
                                    Hi Madrid,
                                    I don't suggest certificate to be the single filter to select the right candidate, but I can tell you, as an employer, it has helped me to more easily differentiate a candidate.
                                    Yes. At the very least, an OCP demonstrates some commitment to the Oracle profession and at least a modicum of knowledge.

                                    Not to mention the commitment to spends several thousand dollars on a hands-on training class . . . .