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    Hands On Course Requirement

      Dear all,

      Suggestions needed on the following :

      Why Oracle is having this hands-on-course requirement for any certification .. ?..I don't get a valid reason other than Oracle wants to make money in one or the other ways.. is there any way that this requirement can get waived ?.. Each course costs atleast 2000US$..
      It does'nt make a big difference by studying there at Oracle Certified centres..If needed, they can increase the exam fees.. Are they want to reduce the number of certified peoples?..If so,what is the use in doin so and this is disgusting..


        • 1. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
          I guess Oracle is trying to use this requirement to prevent people who only go through quick exam dump getting a certificate. Which will make already bad recognized OCP certificate being more worthless.
          I am sure Oracle's intention is to ensure people who got OCP at least getting some proper training. Making money is not their main purpose. You don't have to take these requirement lesson from Oracle University, any Oracle authorized training partner will do.
          • 2. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
            Well Oracle is a business house and there is no harm that thye think about the ways to improve business.Anyways this was a "welcome" step taken if I remember correctly in 2002 because there were "alot" of people who were writing OCP exams without undergoing any formal training and just cramming exam dumps and cheat sheets. So Oracle , to ensure quality in the OCP track,made it mandatory that the candidate must have to go for atleast one course from either OU or any center which is a part of WDP(workforce development programs) aka partener and than only he/she can recive the title of OCP.So the intention is to make sure that the person gets a quaility education.And I seriously don't believe that all the "outside centers" impart the education in the same quality standards as its done in the OU premises.Mileage may vary but in general , OU's quality is far better than the other centers or parteners quality.
            If needed, they can increase the exam fees.. Are they want to reduce the number of certified peop
            You know what, I hear it almost everyday.But then again people complaint that for OCM , the fee is "too high".I don't think that there will be a satisfaction point.The same argument will be given when the fee will be high that Oracle doeesn't want people to get certified or how a middle class person/student can enroll for such a high fee exam?Its the same arguement.And I seriously believe ,its better to have 10 people certified than 1000 who can realy prove the worth of the piece of the paper they are holding.
            I am nto really in support of objective based OCP at all if you ask me.I wnat it to be a part of OCM like RHCE/RHCT.You clear one day, you get OCP.You clear both the days , you get OCM.How about that? In no way, you can use any cheat sheets,dumps or whatever.But again this will reduce the people aspiring and actualy achieveing OCP much less than even the prsent number.
            Itsnot disgusting IMO.If you think about it,its really for your own good to make sure that your certification is not devalued.
            • 3. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
              It is supposed to be a "Professional" certification (the "P" in "OCP").

              Professionals are supposed to have hands on skills.

              Supposedly, in the first few years Oracle received complaints that OCPs
              did not have the right skills -- which was discovered after the OCPs were
              employed. This course requirement is the nature of Oracle's response.
              Going by anecdotal evidence and what we see on these forums, that
              is quite inadequate and the OCP certification has really been cheapened.
              It is not longer about "Professional" but about "Certificate" (not "Certified").
              • 4. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                It is not longer about "Professional" but about "Certificate" (not "Certified").
                Well said!
                • 5. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                  The reason Oracle stated why people should have the course requirement is because Oracle wanted to make sure people had the practical experience and the theorical knowledge.

                  There was a time, around 98-2001 when the Oracle8 and 8i OCP were based on mere extracts from the oracle course manuals, The main problem with this approach was that there were people who either attended the oracle training or somehow they were able to get the OU material and they simply memorized the manual, their chances to get passing scores where high without having practical experience. This was a problem at that time because the OCP, as properly pointed out previously, loose credibility; people from the enterprises realized that professionals with OCP didn't mean they actually had the required skills to perform the job.

                  Oracle decided to change the exam format, and since 9i at both DB and DS, it was not only required to know the theory, but also to have the practical experience on the topics, so that the professional was able to answer questions oriented to real life scenarios, just to name an example, it was not important to know what a redo log file was, but how the impact of transactions could affect the redo log mechanism, and then the questions changed, the format instead of just being a What is ... changed to What would happen if ... kind of questions. If the prospect had the practical experience, it could be able to accurately answer the question, then the OCP credential recovered its credibility.

                  I should say that something happened with the course requirement, may be it was not a formula that worked the way oracle expected to. Starting with 11g it is no longer required to have the hands on course to get the OCP, and a fast track for professionals in OCP 9i can take it to directly get to 11g OCP without being required to pass the 10g OCP.

                  ~ Madrid
                  • 6. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                    Starting with 11g it is no longer required to have the hands on course to get the OCP,
                    I didnt know about this.That's bad.I personaly feel it was a good move and it really did control a huge lot of OCPs coming into the market.Now when its no longer a condition,again the same thing will start.One person will attend training and in his home,will train 100 others on a local pc with improper stuff.
                    • 7. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                      Where it is mentioned that from 11g, the HOC is not required? I can't seem to find it here.
                      And here too,
                      • 8. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                        The information about the Hands on Requirement, I have received it by mail, it pointed to this page:
                        Oracle Certification April 2008
                        There it explicitly states:

                        ...Oracle Database 11g Database Administrator Certified Associate (OCA)
                        The new Oracle Database 11g Database Administrator Certified Associate (OCA) certification is earned by passing two exams and does not have a training requirement. Candidates have several exam routes available to meet certification requirements. Two of the exams have just been released in beta and are available now through June 30 at a significant discount ($50 USD)....

                        ~ Madrid
                        • 9. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                          Being accurate, the Oracle Certification Magazine states the course requirement is for the OCA, not for the OCP, According to this reference, it explicitly stats for the 11g track: Candidates must complete one of the courses below to obtain this certification.

                          Ref. http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=112

                          So, this is kept to almost the same, someone starting with 11g will have to pass the exam and send the course requirement form.

                          ~ Madrid
                          • 10. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                            ABD - DBA
                            It's all about money. Larry is trying to over take Bill.
                            • 11. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                              Why Oracle is having this hands-on-course requirement for any certification
                              Some call it a "money grab":


                              Damir Bersinic writes:

                              "I have three problems with this requirement. First, who is to say that Oracle University is the best place to acquire the necessary skills to become Oracle certified? There are other resources that can provide the same level of coverage of the exam topics and DBA roles. Granted, Oracle's exam objectives map nicely to the courses offered (on purpose, I'm sure), but how about those organizations that decide on bringing in someone to train their people on the same topics outlined in the exam objectives using non-Oracle material or instructors? Is the quality of their training different if the person performing the training is as qualified or better qualified than Oracle's own instructor? Furthermore, they're not breaking any licensing rules since they are legally allowed to use their Oracle licenses to train their own staff.

                              My second problem relates to the reason someone may decide to use a third-party training organization to provide these in-house classes -- the cost. Oracle University classes are quite expensive. By forcing OCP candidates to attend an Oracle University class Oracle is helping to ensure a revenue stream for its education division. Unfortunately, it may also have the effect of discouraging potential OCP candidates from pursuing their certification past the OCA stage. I always thought it was about getting qualified candidates out into the workforce, though it now appears the OCP certification is about filling seats in Oracle University classes.

                              This leads me to my third problem -- any of the Oracle University classes outlined above is valid in satisfying this requirement. Essentially, simply by sitting an Introduction to SQL you have satisfied this requirement, but have not learned any of the skills being tested on the Oracle 9i Database: Fundamentals II or the Oracle 9i Database: Performance Tuning exams, which are required to attain the OCP credential. If Oracle wanted to introduce a course requirement and gear it towards the OCP credential, why not require that candidates attend a class corresponding to the exams required for the OCP designation specifically instead of any Oracle 9i class?"


                              Hope this helps. . .

                              Donald K. Burleson
                              Oracle Press author
                              Author of "Oracle Tuning: The Definitive Reference":
                              • 12. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                                Richard Foote
                                Hi Don

                                Please sit down. Are you comfortable and ready for this.

                                I totally agree with you !!

                                See, it can happen ;)

                                OCP has always been a flawed initiative. This requirement makes no real practical difference in addressing the flaws.


                                Richard Foote
                                • 13. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                                  Thanks for the info.So I guess its the same HOC requirement.Still exams for 11g are in beta so lets see what really comes out.
                                  Thanks and regards
                                  • 14. Re: Hands On Course Requirement
                                    Yes, that's right. The HOC is still alive, so far, for the OCP, but there is something that comes to my attention, the above referred link states that the OCP candidate may take whatever course from the suite, any course from the 11g catalog.

                                    In my personal opinion, I would agre with Burleson and Foote, the point here is to get revenue from the Oracle University division, not actually make sure the candidate has the hands on experience required to be OCP. However I would only say the rules are the rules, and in this case these are not negotiable. It would be nice to provide feedback to the Oracle Certification Program. IMO the HOC doesn't serve what was supposed to be the original goal.

                                    Releasing a question to the air, What would happen if there were another certificate authority recognized and accepted by the industry to issue an Oracle Certificate Professional equivalent Credential? Would the HOC Requirement would be able to survive? ...

                                    ~ Madrid
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