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There is one thing that I'm not quite getting here, I think.
1. WLS, strategically, is basically just a J2EE container, right? I mean, it doesn't have the sorts of infrastructure stuff like IM integration and clustering that a full Oracle AS has. Or does it?
2. Although WLS 11g will be released standalone with JDeveloper, a release of Oracle AS that incorporates WLS is, at soonest, several months down the road, correct?
3. As you said above, 11g ADF applications (by which I mean applications using a substantial part of the ADF fusion stack, not just ADF faces) will not be deployable to anything but WLS.
...So, assuming JDeveloper 11g is going to come out at some point soon (much sooner, at least, than Oracle AS 11g), what is the recommended production deployment platform until AS 10g is released? A stand-alone WLS? Is this really sufficient for the needs of big enterprises? (I don't know much about WLS, so maybe the answer's "yes." I'm just going by analogy with OC4J, which certainly was not something you'd have wanted to use standalone for production deployment.) Or is the idea that JDev 11g will be "production" in the sense of fully supported for starting development work, but not in the sense that you could develop an app and deploy it into production in the next month or so? (Not because of JDev limitations, but because of a lack of platform?)
Let's take this one by one.
1. WLS, strategically, is basically just a J2EE container, right? I mean, it doesn't have the sorts ofIt is more than a J2EE container. It has full cluster, managed server and security manager capabilities. WLS is run in hundreds of high-volume, large scale implementations today. It has it's own security and connection model which we have/are building our Oracle frameworks on top of, including JPS (java platform security).
infrastructure stuff like IM integration and clustering that a full Oracle AS has. Or does it?
2. Although WLS 11g will be released standalone with JDeveloper, a release of Oracle AS thatThe full version of Oracle Fusion Middleware, which includes WLS as it's application server and contains portal, Webcenter, SOA, content, Forms, etc. is coming sometime next year. JDEV, ADF and Toplink are shipping earlier in the release (also on WLS) that is going to be released "very soon"
incorporates WLS is, at soonest, several months down the road, correct?
3. As you said above, 11g ADF applications (by which I mean applications using a substantialADF will be certified on the normal set of stuff: JBoss, Websphere, WLS, Oracle DB, SQLServer, DB2, MySql. For this first release, we have certified some, and verified that it runs on these, and full certification for all of this is coming with the full middleware release next year. We will not be certifying ADF 11g on OC4J however. ADF 10g will continue to be used on that container.
part of the ADF fusion stack, not just ADF faces) will not be deployable to anything but WLS.
...So, assuming JDeveloper 11g is going to come out at some point soon (much sooner, at least,The Jdev/ADF/Toplink/WLS version that is coming very soon is what you start building on. We have been working with a handful of external customers, as well as over a dozen internal customers, building real-world, high-volume apps on this software. Some of those customers will go production on ADF 11g & WLS later this year. We recommend that you start building with this version, which will interoperate with the 10g stack, and then when the rest of Fusion Middleware comes along next year, you can expand the technology stack to the rest of the middleware stack.
than Oracle AS 11g), what is the recommended production deployment platform until AS 10g is
which features of TP4 will NOT be included in first 11g production release? (I read about MDS)
If customer has licensed OAS 10g to run forms/reports, does this mean they have to license WLS 10gR3 too, to run ADF 11g application (parts of application are forms and some are made with ADF), because OC4J 11g is not available ?
That helps a lot, thanks.
it's very good and important question. What about customers having licenses for OAS 10g. Will we heve to buy separate license to run ADF 11g applications in production enviroment ?
More good questions for the FAQ.
which features of TP4 will NOT be included in first 11g production release? (I read about MDS)MDS is there, but no customization support. Along with that, no active data and no ADFbc service interface. Just about everything else is there.
If customer has licensed OAS 10g to run forms/reports, does this mean they have to license WLS 10gR3 too,Jdev is free, and ADF is free (or included) in any oracle application server license. So all you need to use this is to license the new WLS server. The product is something called "Weblogic Suite EE". You can get that today since WLS 10.3 (which ADF 11g is based on) started shipping this summer.
to run ADF 11g application (parts of application are forms and some are made with ADF), because OC4J 11g
is not available ?
We have a program where existing customers get credits for the software they already purchased and can apply that to the new products, like WLS. Pricing can get complex with discounts, what you currently have, etc. so you should contact your sales rep and ask them specifically what it will take for you to get the Weblogic Suite EE. Once you have that, you are good to go with ADF 11g.
sorry if my last attempt on clarifying the deployment targets for JDeveloper 11/ADF confused people about the availability of OracleAs 11. All I wanted to say is that OC4 10.1.3 is not a deployment target for ADF 11 applications because of JSF 1.2 dependencies and that the Oracle deployment target is WLS. As Ted clarified (thanks Ted), we deploy to other JEE containers as well and are not restricted to WLS.
To address some other comments
There will be bugs found when JDeveloper is released in the coming weeks. Is there a recommended procedure that we can follow as to reporting those bugs.
The recommended way is customer support and metalink.oracle.com. Once released in production, JDeveloper 11 is a supported product handled by customer support.
I know that we can open a tar on OTN but is there a minimum set of information that will make tracking down the problems easier on your end such as JDeveloper 11g (specific version number from the "About JDeveloper", OS JDeveloper is running on, Technology Scope chosen, libraries used, etc.
This actually is a courtesy of mine in that I file bugs on behalf of forum members, especially during the time of technical preview testing. I monitor this forum to help you with your coding questions, but also trying to find possible software issues that I am following up with. The intention is not to make OTN an alternative to customer support. However, as you were suggesting it, its always good to provide the following information when posting an issue
- JDeveloper version (copy from help--> about)
- Dependencies to 3rd party libraries if tehy exist
additional personal preferences of mine are
- be as verbose as needed in posting the question, but not more
- provide a usecase of what you want to achieve using plain English. Often it doesn't help to fix a failed implementation if the assumption leading to it was wrong in the first place.
Shay Shmeltzer once posted a good summary of this: http://blogs.oracle.com/shay/2007/03/02
We will want to track down and resolve as soon as possible any bugs found (hopefully few) when JDeveloper is first released.
Metalink and customer support are the answer to this. They both follow formal processes for issue reporting and bug filing. Plus you as a filer will have the chance to track the progress
Can we put a static FAQ thread in these forums for items like this. Many developers will want to use the ADF Faces RC but will still be on the current OC4J platform. We can plan for this as long as we know the roadmap for 11g ADF Fusion and an FAQ eould help stop the panic.
This is a good point and I took a note. I think a FAQ on the JDeveloper website, with a reference from this forum, makes sense to have asap. Thanks for the suggestion
Thank you for this explanation, Ted. This answered many question I was having.
Also, thanks for the link to Shay's blog. Most of it is the same ole' same ole' about being a good forum community member. But you and Shay's blog pointed out the points I was looking for in what can we specifically give details about. I see that too often on forums and on MetaLink (MetaLink being much better obviously).
JSF/ADFBC application - developed using Jdeveloper 10.1.3.2
Potlets - developed using Oracle Portal - 10.1.4
Future Platform: (*Deadline:August 2009*) - client requires Web 2.0 features
Portlets - WebCenter Suite
For both to co-exist(JSF pages & portlets):
1) Which platform should I use to develop this application (Jdeveloper 11 which will be available "soon" (or) Technical Preview release 4 which is available now (or) Webcenter Suite 11g which will be available in Calendar year 09?
2) What would be my deployment platform? (OAS 10.1.3.2 (or) WLS 10g (or) OAS 11)
The answer is very critical for we have a very short deadline. Any help is appreciated.
I would go with TP4 which aligns best with where we are going in the future. That will be OC4J-based. Then when the full 11g Fusion Middleware platform comes out you can upgrade to that. The biggest change will be OC4J switched out for WLS. That should be fine for your target of 8/2009.
One thing to point out is that I don't know what you mean by "OAS 11". Are you referring to the full Fusion Middleware 11g? The enterprise application server? or something else?
Thanks a bunch for the quick response. I will get started on TP4.
By OAS, I meant Oracle Application Server.
JDEV/ADF is now production. two weeks + 1 day from the time of announcement :). Have at it. We're looking forward to hearing your feedback.
And a BIG THANK YOU to your development team! Thanks especially to Shay, Lynn, Frank, et.al.
And you kept your word. Much appreciated.
Looking forward to the road map. I actually have an idea in my head of what that looks like as I have noted your comments and others about what works with what. We can internally start getting a plan together but a roadmap from Oracle about OAS 10g starting with release 1 (yes release 1) through to 11g, JDeveloper 10.1.3.1 through to JDeveloper 11g, Forms 10g, Reports 10g, etc. We are an Oracle shop and need to get all of these things upgraded in the next couple of years. Oh and we are Java 1.4.2 (since we are on release 1 OAS still) through Java EE 5 and eventually JEE 6.
- Bradley S. Behrens
Congratulations to JDeveloper team! :^0
I've just manage to start the applicaton we've been developing using TP4 by final release.
- I had to recreate web.xml due to some invalid configuration items
- weblogic is accessible at http://127.0.0.1:7101/console username / password is weblogic/weblogic
- to edit application security files, right click application in the application navigator and choose "ADF Security policies"
- bafplus theme seem to be somewhat changed. A page template we developed using TP4 doesn't look the same (it looks broken)
- there seem to be some issues with our application. I get "'bindings' returned null". Could be an error in configuration or something (at least I hope)
- it takes quite long for our application to be deployed and run, even if weblogic is already running
So much for now. Have fun :-)