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  • 15. Re: Oracle licensing cost
    23314 Newbie
    Currently Being Moderated
    The figures were based on the July 1st price list.

    Not to mentioned also once you have added DR provision, the cost ratio suddenly become 6.12 as SQL Server does not require additional licensing cost on the DR server. In my opinion this is the killer. Total Cost of Ownership is a lot more higher than SQL Server.

    Don't get me wrong here I am not trying to banish Oracle but I would really like to see how Oracle can help the DBAs out there to justify and continue to recommend Oracle as the enterprise database platform for the company.
  • 16. Re: Oracle licensing cost
    oraclemagician Oracle ACE Director
    Currently Being Moderated
    Hi Don,

    In reply to your question:
    burleson wrote:
    Are you sure?
    I was under the impression that Oracle is very cheap for the small systems that SQL Server level customers use (2-4 CPU's)?

    Does anybody know for sure?
    Actually, I think the correct answer is "it depends" on the version and licensed options for either Oracle or MS SQL Server.
    I don't have the price lists in front of me at the moment for both Oracle and MS SQL Server to compare options for each of the different versions (Enterprise vs. Standard editions) and so forth. However, if folks are
    interested, I can dig these up and run a comparison. Advanced options and Enterprise Editions definitely cost more than standard editions.

    With respect to Windows crashing more and being in general a bigger pain to deal with, this I certainly whole heartedly agree! UNIX and LINUX are far more robust OS platforms and more feature rich for serious DBAs!
    If I had a nickel for everytime that I experienced the infamous "Blue Screen of Death" when dealing with Windows, I would be a gazillionaire by now.

    Cheers,
    Ben
  • 17. Re: Oracle licensing cost
    oraclemagician Oracle ACE Director
    Currently Being Moderated
    burleson wrote:
    Please note Oracle SE One is cheaper than SQL Standard Edition
    The real measure is total cost of ownership (TCO), not just the license costs . . .

    The license costs are just a tiny fraction of the total costs for a database management system.

    It's like buying a horse, the purchase price is just a tiny fraction of what you will spend.
    Exactly! In fact I know several firms here in San Diego that initially deployed their database and application environments on MySQL and ended up having to re-implement due to scalability and availability issues. One can only imagine the
    additional expenses to migrate to Oracle from MySQL instead of first using Oracle in the first place. Not to mention the additional costs of training or replacing a DBA who lacks Oracle knowledge.
  • 18. Re: Oracle licensing cost
    546494 Journeyer
    Currently Being Moderated
    so in the uk, Standard Editon 10g for a single socket server costs approx 10K but Enterprise Edition costs approx 28K. prices are from an oracle account manager today.
  • 19. Re: Oracle licensing cost
    hans forbrich Oracle ACE Director
    Currently Being Moderated
    When looking at list prices, I suggest starting at the Oracle online store. You can select the local currency to be displayed, and prices are accurate MSRP (since you can buy right there).

    Of course negotiated discounts (which are not consistent anyway) are not factored in.


    I generally recommend starting with list price when setting budgets since discounts are so variable and undependable. With the range of products in Oracle, it's not unusual to spot exceptions or exclusions in the negotiated discounts.


    But yes, if you commit to using the technology and actually use the features you buy (as compared to staying vendor neutral and perhaps duplicating capability either through purchase or internal development), Oracle can be less expensive than alternatives in the long run. The challenge is that many organizations can/do only look at Capital Expense when making go-forward decisions rather than Capital+Operating+Retirement Expense.
  • 20. Re: Oracle licensing cost
    546494 Journeyer
    Currently Being Moderated
    I agree that accountants do look at the here and now and it is obvious that with Oracle prices the way they are then Capital expense has to be looked at. And with that we are in a global economic downturn then Capital expenditure is the first thing to suffer. If sql server or my sql are cheaper and can still do the job then that is what will be brought.
  • 21. Re: Oracle licensing cost
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    burleson wrote:

    Also we have to remember that Windows can crash almost daily . . .
    Untrue. Windows is a capable operating system, period.

    Do not blame one's own inability to install, configure, administer and use an operating system correctly, on the so-callled "+instabalility+" of that operating system.
    OTN is full of questions where Windows services crash for no apparent reason!
    And OTN contains even more questions where Oracle crashes for no apparent reason. Your point being?


    If you want to slam Windows, do it with facts - not personal bias.
  • 22. Re: Oracle licensing cost
    hans forbrich Oracle ACE Director
    Currently Being Moderated
    alanm wrote:
    If sql server or my sql are cheaper and can still do the job then that is what will be brought.
    My point being that many developers (that I have met) have little idea how to use SQL properly and incorrectly conclude that SQL Server or MySQL will indeed do the job. Thereby increasing the total cost of the project while keeping the apparent initial cost down.

    /Hans
    ... back to work
  • 23. Re: Oracle licensing cost
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    alanm wrote:
    I agree that accountants do look at the here and now and it is obvious that with Oracle prices the way they are then Capital expense has to be looked at. And with that we are in a global economic downturn then Capital expenditure is the first thing to suffer. If sql server or my sql are cheaper and can still do the job then that is what will be brought.
    Don't think that Oracle does not want to do business.. they do. So IMO play open cards with the Oracle account manager. Be truthful of what you can afford and how and where you want to use Oracle. They're not short sighted. A foot in the door today means probable sales in the future. So they want your business and they are, in my experience, prepared to meet a customer.. and sometimes more than halfway. Word is that a discount (the word obscene comes to mind) we got some years ago, had to be okayed by Larry himself. We only had x amount. And the choice was either mySQL or Oracle. We asked Oracle if they wanted the business. The solution was ringfenced. Some years later.. we now have several other systems using the exact same Oracle technology and products and the beancounters are happy to pay proper price now for a proven architecture.
  • 24. Re: Oracle licensing cost
    546494 Journeyer
    Currently Being Moderated
    hi Hans,
    A huge number of websites use the LAMP technology stack, it is stable and developers are happy with it.

    regards

    Alan
  • 25. Re: Oracle licensing cost
    546494 Journeyer
    Currently Being Moderated
    we had a frank discussion with our account manager. Yes Oracle with provide credit etc etc but they will alway get their pound of flesh.

    Even our account manager said that Oracle need to egt in the real world but that O fear will not happen.

    regards

    Alan
  • 26. Re: Oracle licensing cost
    hans forbrich Oracle ACE Director
    Currently Being Moderated
    alanm wrote:
    hi Hans,
    A huge number of websites use the LAMP technology stack, it is stable and developers are happy with it.
    Yes, I know.

    Doesn't mean they are getting the best use of a SQL engine, though. But it's the devil they know. In many, many, many cases, LAMP simply provides a 'record oriented garbage^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hdata dump'.


    Popular does not necessarily mean 'right' or 'good'. There is a very popular fast food chain, however I am not sure I'd equate that with 'fine dining'.

    Edited by: Hans Forbrich on Aug 6, 2009 6:10 PM
  • 27. Re: Oracle licensing cost
    BillyVerreynne Oracle ACE
    Currently Being Moderated
    alanm wrote:
    we had a frank discussion with our account manager. Yes Oracle with provide credit etc etc but they will alway get their pound of flesh.

    Even our account manager said that Oracle need to egt in the real world but that O fear will not happen.
    Push it. Either they want your business or not. If they do, then they need to accommodate you now and get your business in future.

    By the same token, do not think you can get Oracle for free or "+take them for a ride+". They need incentive to accommodate you - they're not going to give away freebies without any kind of guarantee of future business.

    I'm often caught in the middle (am a external contractor). So both the client and Oracle talk to me more frankly I think than to one another. ;-)

    I always tell the client that Oracle is worth it. It is the finest data processing platform in the world. It is not just a RDBMS. Not a bit bucket for storing data. And an investment in the right technology and architecture is an investment in the business systems that makes that particular company profitable and competitive. If both sides treat it as a partnership then both sides win IMO - as it is in the interest of each that the other party is successful.

    As for architecture.. no, LAMP is not it. Have to agree with everything Hans has said on the subject. Many (if not most) LAMP type developers have no real grasp on how to design and code truly scalable web based systems. Scalability is not throwing hardware at the problem as the J2EE proponents like to think either.

    Business applications are useless without data. Business applications change over time (and often are easily replaced our swapped out). The data however remains the core. And that core should have the biggest investment as the data is what is important. And unlike the application, replacing the data layer is a very complex process.. and an expensive one. Which means making the right decision about the data layer is a critical one from the very start.

    Our current architecture looks something like this:
    - AMD based x86 64 bit blade servers (very cheap in comparison to the "+traditional+" servers)
    - Oracle RDBMS
    - APEX as the application UI (User Interface) layer
    - Linux o/s

    And this architecture is cheap and works.. for a small single server database application supporting a few 100 users.. to large Oracle clusters. Never mind LAMP.. I yet have to seen any other architecture providing the same range from small app to very large app, with this type of scalability, at this cost.
  • 28. Re: Oracle licensing cost
    706417 Explorer
    Currently Being Moderated
    I have seen the same as Sybrand: companies are looking at using SS instead of Oracle, particularly for Web-based, low-medium transaction volume work. And that sort of project is rife these days.

    The reason? Money. Mainly licence costs. Let's not forget that a SS DBA is cheaper than an Oracle DBA, too. And, there are more SS DBA jobs than Oracle DBA jobs out there, which tells its own tale.

    I can see SS slam dunking Oracle if Oracle continues to put up costs.

    Also, Windows is not the crash-every-2-minutes pile of old dung that it was in times past. It's now as stable as any other platform, in my experience.

    Now... where did I put my SQL Server Teach Yourself CD-ROMs?
  • 29. Re: Oracle licensing cost
    108476 Journeyer
    Currently Being Moderated
    Windows is a capable operating system, period.
    I'm not at all surprised to hear that you love Windows . . .

    You claim to be African, and I'm sure that the OS market is very different in Africa . . .

    Do not blame one's own inability to install, configure, administer and use an operating system correctly
    It's not a good idea to make conclusions, based on no evidence . . .

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