Failed to drop and recreate a dbcontrol

 I am trying to drop and recreate a dbcontrol.  I've seen so many things online about issues with this and tried everything they suggested from dropping the SYSMAN user/schema and trying again to just recreating verses dropping...none of it's working.  I'm at a point now where according to the error, there's no control to stop, but it won't create a new one because it tries to stop the non-existant current one.  Anyone know how to get around this fun event?  Specifically the log shows that the SYSMAN user already exists (because it just recreated it, because I deleted it before attempting this process) and that the .pid file does not exist for the console (because it's new - duh?) INFO: Stopping Database Control (this may take a while) ...